FDX wet leasing through 29 May
 

So, for guys/gals who've been here a while, have you ever seen wet leasing extended into the summer?

I was planning on escaping the cold with some BOG/PTY/SJO layovers this winter. What gives??? :( Why aren't the wet lease a/c taking GTF, FSD, FNT???

For the MadDog, doesn't management know that some of our guys have families to visit down in VCP? They haven't seen them since before Xmas! :eek:

Hey, they can keep Bogota, but what's wrong with Flint? It's such a lovely area, and it's very exciting ducking bullets, plus the water has such a beautiful yellow orange tint. It's so good for your health:confused:

Oh, you troublemaker, you've done it now!

Though it makes you wonder if we're going to see a big a$$ wet leasing check. At least the union promised to give it to the pilots this time.

You could get yourself in trouble with this one my friend.

But that was funny...

I am more interested in when the union is going to send out scope checks.

"Lions are red my love, violets are blue..."

Scope checks, priceless! The Union will be sure to get a part of any payout, if we get it.

I am so confused...

However, that is my normal state of mind:eek:

The Union will get its usual share and we'll see maybe $50. And I'm so glad that I can keep contributing to VEBA. Anyone notice two of the 2016 retirees are guys on airplanes no longer here? One is a DC Capt and one a 72SO. Good for them for holding on so long. I'm sure its a medical issue.

Lots of angst here. If you are concerned about your scope payout, contact your block rep. I am willing to be you that you will get 100% or close to it this time....I don't think they will consider any other option after the political fallout last time.

I really wonder why this pilot group is so quick to shoot at the guys on the same team. I saw enough *(&% 767 schoolhouse LCAs out here in Asia on draft during negotiations...wondering what the union was doing on negotiations. The truth is the pilots flying those draft trips were doing most of the negotiating...they just don't realize it or don't care. ALPA is us.... Many in this pilot group will lick the hand of management hoping for a good deal then snap at the team that fights and grieves for the crew force. Be a professional, and do a good job for your profession and your employer. I can wear purple and am proud to be here. But remember when both sides sit down to dicker about the money, who is actually lobbying for you. Some here seem to delight in rooting against their own team. I don't get it... If you aren't satisfied, throw your hand in the air and your hat in the ring and go get involved. I did--and it opened my eyes to how many pilots and how many resources are being used to help on our side.

My snapshot: A union volunteer was trying to get all of us in HKG our calendars. He offered to meet us at a local place in D-bay, or leave them for us in our lockers at CAN on his next trip through. I actually heard these comments from some in the peanut gallery... "...can't believe the union is too cheap to just mail them to us..." and "....these got out late..." If anyone ever has to face a TRB or sit at the table to explain an incident or event, then they will appreciate some of the infrastructure that is behind the scenes. I like my calendar, appreciate the heck out of SL and the team that puts them together, and was grateful we had an FO willing to hand them out. I am surprised at times we get anyone to help considering the high level of cynicism and venom directed at some. And yeah....I threw venom out a few years ago too....but then I ran for rep and spent a few years doing committee work.

I am looking forward to my scope check. I am patient, however, and suspect the "bill" to the company is still being calculated. The scary part to me is not the loss of the stuff we gave up temporarily, but the trips that are no longer in our bid pack at all...like Hilo, Cebu PI, Santiago Chile, and Buenes Aries. The South American flying was interesting, beautiful (Southern Cross!), and was some of the more enjoyable flying I got to do in the -11. I hope it comes back.

[QUOTE=Albief15;2056386]Lots of angst here. If you are concerned about your scope payout, contact your block rep. I am willing to be you that you will get 100% or close to it this time....I don't think they will consider any other option after the political fallout last time.

You got yours and you have pretty much said that. That's fine. We all get what we vote for. I have YET to see any Union leadership pay out any funds more than they have to or would want to. After 20yrs at FedEx I have absolute zero trust in the Union. 3 Contracts and 3 failed attempts at progression. Yep, I'll be labeled as bitter but the guys I'm flying with on the line are either lying that they are happy with the contract or not telling the truth. Albie, you have a business and make money off of this. Say it isn't so, but you are here a lot and I wonder what your true goals are.

So I expect nothing in this company or contract. What we have now is what guys are going to live with for not just 6yrs but 8-10. But my days of believing that we can work together are gone. When my own leadership sells me short, why should I fight the big fight? Sorry guys but its all for one after this sell out. And guys like Albie continually posting when they have a vested interest in pilot hiring via his company make me wonder why anyone would believe him.

My true goals on these boards are the same they've been since flightinfo days back in 1999 and since....

Have fun. Share info. Learn about the industry. Make a few "virtual" friends, many who have become real friends that I've met around the country.

Several people gave me great info back then... a couple guys at Jetblue, and a couple here (anyone remember "Profile" from Flightinfo?). I've tried to pass it along.

You can be bitter if you want--we all gotta chose a path. Making 300k a year, having good health care, and staying in 4-5 star hotels is a damn sight better than most folks in the world ever have. Having the ability to push for more, while still maintaining a sense of contentment and satisfaction internally is a balancing act. Maybe its because I know pilots who have lost medicals, or one recently terminated for a firearm/security issue, that I have an appreciation for what we do have.

As for the business...well...thank you for the plug. I don't need to talk it up--the over 1000 pilots at FedEx who have been hired after doing the course can do that talking, as can the over 1000 at Delta, 1000 at SWA, and over 500 at UAL. But if you want to throw me underhand soft balls like that--I'm more than glad to take them. You are a great Ed McMahon, and I appreciate the assist.

Don't know what you fly, but if its a 777 or -11 and you find yourself on this side of the world, I'm in VIPS and my calendar ain't blocked. Last bar crawl in LKF I did with some visiting pilots was in December, and I'm overdue... I'll buy.

You helped my wife get on with SWA, thumbs up in our book

Albie, as most of us know, the business you run is second to none. Everyone I've sent your way gave good reviews. That cannot be disputed by anyone. However the guys you are referring to flying draft, might have been doing for the same reason you were an advocate and vote yes for your contract.

"They were doing what was best for their families. They probably sat down and discus it with their wives too"

I think that's one of the reasons you gave right?

So voting yes and flying DPs are the same right? With this logic we would never get a contract.

And the logic of I do what's best for my family is any better? Me Me Me Me

So I should vote based on what's best for u u u u u u? Guess what I did. I looked at the deal and decided it was the best we were going to get given the circumstances of guys flying draft around Asia.

Not me Sir, not at all. I just think it's a double standard to knock guys flying draft in the best interest of their family but it's ok to vote yes in the best interest of your family. In both cases it's all about the $$$.

So just to clear it up is it ever permissible to vote yes? If so under what circumstances? Perhaps only when star clipper is satisfied? And I'm the greedy one?

Once again you're getting me wrong. Do as you please but don't knock other for doing as they please.

I get it. Some say voting yes on the contract means you aren't a team player. I think it guaranteed some gains--including some we are still waiting for like a rolling deviation bank and secondary improvements--and made a much better contract for everyone here.

Some seem to think round II would have gone our way. Two guys on the MEC were on the 2006 MEC...and they split their vote. Both FDA reps recommended voting yes. Every pilot group except Anchorage favored the deal when the votes were tallied. Voting yes wasn't just about me, or the FDA, or any particular pilot group. I voted yes because I thought kicking it back was going to give us less--not more--going forward and open us up to vulnerabilities (like vacation, deadheading, and health care) that I thought were worth protecting from reattacks. I also thought honestly that turning the NC back over to the same crowd that got us FDA 1 and Interim contract 2011 wasn't going to change the outcome in our favor. That's not a personal slam--just based on results I'd seen from past negotiations. I was simply passing on what I saw from my perspective, especially from 2008-2011.

But hey--if that makes me and the 57% the same in your mind as the guys flying extra before the TA, I probably won't change your mind.

I am so weary of the heroic no voter and the selfish yes voter crap. I voted no, does that make me heroic? But I was selfishly thinking of what was best for me. I have to wonder what stake you have in this one, StarClipper, you don't even work for FedEx. Are you just trying to stir things up, now that it's done and there is nothing we can do about it but try to ensure the contract is followed?

Or are you annoyed that we didn't hold out for enough, as to hold up a standard for others in the industry? If that is so, I can't imagine a more selfish perspective. Don't vote for your family, or even for the other pilots in the company. Vote for my interests, though I won't even work under this contract, because it might eventually help me get a better deal.:eek:

Ok back to your regularly scheduled program. Does anyone have a wag on the approximate dollar amount of the scope payments per pilot? Are we talking tens of dollars, hundreds?

Heard on the crew bus that it was costing the company $1.2 million a month in penalties.

To be conservative, figure 4 months of penalties and divide by 4,500 pilots. Ends up at just over $1,000 per pilot.

Read the earlier post, I only commented on Albie statement of guy flying draft. FDXLAG choose to interpret it the way he wants

So your point is voting on a contract is only a team player action if you vote no (depending on whether it benefits starclipper). Voting yes is an anti team player action like flying draft. I interpret the way it is written.

FDX wet leasing through 29 May
 

You can see the Southern Cross heading South to Singapore. In fact, you can see it during the late spring-summer from South of 25 degrees North latitude.

Now, back to *****in'.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are you really that dense, or are you just pretending in order to stir up trouble?


The issue is not Yes or No, fly or not, complain or gush compliments -- the issue is the rationale behind the action.

Aaron complained that he witnessed guys flying draft, and blamed them for our inability to get negotiate a better TA ... he accused them of negotiating against us. Starclipper pointed out those draft flyers may have been using the same logic to fly those draft trips as Aaron used to endorse the TA. Aaron posted at length to explain that voting FOR the TA was the best choice for HIM and HIS family. The draft flyer most likely felt that flying that trip was the best choice for HIM and HIS family. Of course, without asking him and allowing him to answer, we won't know. We can throw stones, but then that would sound like the criticism in the first post that Aaron chose to ... criticize.


We can choose to act like 4,500 individuals, or we can choose to act like one family. Here's the difference.

An individual votes YES or NO based on what is good for 1 person, that person. I don't fly the X airplane, I don't care about rules that only affect the X airplane. I only fly intra-Asia, I don't care about how "lie-flat" seats may affect ocean-crossers. I don't plan to use International Hotel-in-lieu-of, I don't care how it affects guys chasing girls around Asia. If the work rule doesn't apply to ME, I don't care how it affects anyone else.

A team player votes YES or NO based on what is good for 4,500 family members. I don't fly the X airplane, but I have 500 brothers and sisters who do, and I care about rules that will harm them. I only fly intra-Asia, but I have 4,300 brothers and sisters that don't, and I care about rules that affect them, too. I don't plan to use International Hotel-in-lieu of, but I'm not willing to concede that benefit if even one of my brothers will be harmed by the concession. Not every work rule applies to ME, but they all apply to US, and that's what family does -- we guard each others' backs.


The glaring irony that I think Starclipper picked up on is that Aaron began his post with "I really wonder why this pilot group is so quick to shoot at the guys on the same team." and in the very next sentence took a shot at the "*(&% 767 schoolhouse LCAs out here in Asia on draft." Last I checked, they're on the same team, too. And if they're looking out for themselves, how does that make them any different from the majority of their ... brothers?






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Perhaps you're thinking of Prof2MDA.



So, you're saying the vast majority of pilots hired are FedEx, Delta, SWA, and UAL got there without paying for your help? I had no idea. ;)






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There was pilot...SM...who went by profile. He gave me a lot of insight into life at FedEx and how the system worked. I didn't understand the name until years later when I went to the -11.

Lots of good guys back then...more help and less venom on the boards.

Tony, I don't know you. I probably have never met you. But I disagree with most of what you post in this forum. I DO NOT WANT you, or people who think like you to try to guess what is best for our FedEx team. You have no idea what is best for me or a majority of people like me who decided to vote yes on this contract. In fact, the supreme arrogance of someone who thinks they do know what is best for people they've never even met before is a key disqualifier for that person to vote on anyone's behalf. Claiming some kind of misguided status as a savior of the ignorant masses who are too stupid to understand your point of view is a weak cop out for being unable to actually convince a majority of people that your view is correct.
Despite your time working for ALPA, you somehow missed the fact we participate in a democratic process. In a democratic process, decisions are made by individuals who collectively produce a majority vote. If every single member of our FedEx pilot team voted on the TA based on whether or not the TA met their personal approval, than the process worked exactly as it is supposed to. Every voter had an equal opportunity to study all the issues, and every voter had an equal opportunity to cast a vote on their own behalf. When the votes are counted, the collective decision of the majority wins. And that means a majority of the team wins. You, of all people, know that sometimes votes go your way, and sometimes they don't. If you really, truly, cared about your "brothers", you would honor their decision and stop building ivory towers to pontificate from.

And the family voted yes so suck it up and quit whining.

You have a good grasp on the democratic process, and zero appreciation for what it means to be in a union.






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Refresh my memory -- who posted in this thread about YES and NO votes first? Was that me, or you?






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I respect the fact that you ran again for an ALPA position. I also respect the fact that of the people in your block who voted, a majority believe it is you who doesn't appreciate what it means to be in a union.

How would you go about selecting a Negotiating Committee Chairman?






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It was probably star clipper equating anti union activity with union activity.

Typical -- given the choice between A and B, you select Orange. :rolleyes:


StarClipper compared a right to choose to a right to choose.

Are you suggesting the "*(&% 767 schoolhouse LCA" had less of a right to fly draft than you had to vote Yes? Maybe he just figured out the TA was a lost cause before you did.






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Typical Tony defending draft flying, what's next DPs? Lots of people turned down draft during negotiations and chose to take a hit for their families. And then saw others picking it and making out like bandits. What are you running for Wolfpack block rep? You are seriously equating flying draft during negotiations with voting in a union election. In fact a big part of my decision to vote yes was all of the draft flying I was witnessing. I dont deny their right to fly draft, but I sure as hell wasn't going to spend the next two years turning it down and achieving no effective pressure on the company.

So you voted yes to a 6yr contract because guys were flying draft? Completely different reason from what you gave during the voting process on the TA. Now that's funny I'm sure we all remember all your rants in favor of the TA

Thanks for explaining Tony C