Stalling with multi engine.
02-24-2007 | 07:22 PM
#1
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From: PA-44 Left
Stalling with multi engine.
I was talking to my CFI and he said, you still have to do stall maneuvers (one engine) to get my CFI license. Then I asked, what if you get into a spin in a multi engine aircraf, he said, if you get in to a spin in a multi engine aircraft with one inop engine, you are screwed. How did you guys cope with this?
02-24-2007 | 08:08 PM
#2
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From: 777 FO
Ask your CFI to look at the Practical Test Standards for your particular rating. If you are referring to the multiengine instructor rating, I don't remember doing stalls with one engine shutdown. That seems dangerous to me.
If you can't find a maneuver in the PTS, then it's not required for the checkride.
I would not do a stall in a multiengine airplane with an engine shut down. That's just me.
If you can't find a maneuver in the PTS, then it's not required for the checkride.
I would not do a stall in a multiengine airplane with an engine shut down. That's just me.
02-24-2007 | 09:38 PM
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From: 777 FO
If your CFI is suggesting performing stalls with one engine inoperative, then you should have a little talk with your CFI.
This is taken right from the FAA's PTS:
XI. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS
NOTE: The examiner shall select at least one TASK. Stalls shall not be
performed with one engine at reduced power or inoperative and the other
engine(s) developing effective power.
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-6C.pdf
page 2-41 or page 169 on the PDF file
You CAN do stalls in a multiengine airplane, it just needs to be done with both engines running at reduced power.
This is taken right from the FAA's PTS:
XI. AREA OF OPERATION: SLOW FLIGHT AND STALLS
NOTE: The examiner shall select at least one TASK. Stalls shall not be
performed with one engine at reduced power or inoperative and the other
engine(s) developing effective power.
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-6C.pdf
page 2-41 or page 169 on the PDF file
You CAN do stalls in a multiengine airplane, it just needs to be done with both engines running at reduced power.
02-24-2007 | 09:42 PM
#6
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
???? Yeah, i don't remember that one either. Sounds like a great recipe for an inverted flat-spin.
Get a new CFI. If I knew that someone was doing something like this I would have a serious talk with the guy, and if he didn't see the light I'd go to the FSDO.
NOTE: Your cfi may have been talking about the Vmc demo...in many light twins the operating engine cannot generate enough power to actually Vmc when doing the demo at altitude...in this case you would get stall indications before Vmc and recover immediately before entering a stall, IIRC
Get a new CFI. If I knew that someone was doing something like this I would have a serious talk with the guy, and if he didn't see the light I'd go to the FSDO.
NOTE: Your cfi may have been talking about the Vmc demo...in many light twins the operating engine cannot generate enough power to actually Vmc when doing the demo at altitude...in this case you would get stall indications before Vmc and recover immediately before entering a stall, IIRC
02-24-2007 | 09:55 PM
#7
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From: PA-44 Left
[QUOTE=rickair7777;123921NOTE: Your cfi may have been talking about the Vmc demo...in many light twins the operating engine cannot generate enough power to actually Vmc when doing the demo at altitude...in this case you would get stall indications before Vmc and recover immediately before entering a stall, IIRC[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that might be what he was talking about. My CFI is not a risk taker, so I guess I misinterrupted it the wrong way.
Yeah, that might be what he was talking about. My CFI is not a risk taker, so I guess I misinterrupted it the wrong way.
02-25-2007 | 12:54 PM
#8
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From: ATP, CFI etc.
Counterrotating twins don't stall in vmc demo before reaching vmc as long as the density altitude is high enough. Assymetrical thrust goes down due to the thinner air.
Even so, as an instructor though you have to think about what is going to happen if that one in a thousand student manages to kill a motor while setting up a stall and then follows through before you can push the nose down. I guess you will have to hope for the best and be alert. I am told the best policy for instructors is to assume the student is actually trying to kill the both of you lest it really happen, and it has unfortunately.
Even so, as an instructor though you have to think about what is going to happen if that one in a thousand student manages to kill a motor while setting up a stall and then follows through before you can push the nose down. I guess you will have to hope for the best and be alert. I am told the best policy for instructors is to assume the student is actually trying to kill the both of you lest it really happen, and it has unfortunately.
Last edited by Cubdriver; 02-25-2007 at 01:01 PM.
02-25-2007 | 11:08 PM
#9
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From: EMB 145 FO
stall with one engine inoperative = stupid. Its dangerous, for a number of reasons. Vmc demo is a "stall" with one engine set to zero thrust, but not shutdown and secured. You should be starting out recovering at the first indication of a loss of directional control in the Vmc demo, then go a little further with it, but never to a stall.
02-26-2007 | 05:56 PM
#10
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
At a LOWER density altitude, the operating engine makes more thrust and will Vmc when airspeed drops enough to use up all the rudder.
At a HIGHER density altitude, the operating engine makes LESS power, so the airplane can get significantly slower before you run out of rudder.
At altitude , many gutless light twins will get slow enough to stall BEFORE running out of rudder (cuz the engine is so weak)...in this case your Vmc demo actually never occurs...you terminate the manuever at the first stall indications. This would happen around 4K-7K MSL, IIRC.
The trick here is that the engine is idle, not feathered, and you recover before the stall really develops. I'm pretty sure this is in the PTS somewhere.
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