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Old 02-16-2019, 11:37 AM   #1  
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Default Stupid question on ratings and PPL

Can you get ratings/endorsements before you get a PPL or SPL? I might try to take advantage of the short days and get some night hours in, but I still would be short of my time I need for a PPL before I hit the minimum hours for IFR rating.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:16 PM   #2  
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Ratings are qualifications that are added to a pilot certificate.

You must have a pilot certificate first.

You can get an endorsement; for a tailwheel airpalne, for example, when you are learning to fly. It's fine if you're learning to fly in an airplane with a tailwheel, but your focus when learning to fly should be upon the basics. You can pursue various qualifications after you've learned the basics, to broaden your understanding and experience.

The learning you do in your primary training is among the most critical you'll experience in your flying; learn it properly and learn it well.

An instrument rating would do very little good if you didn't know how to fly to begin with.
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Old 02-16-2019, 12:45 PM   #3  
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You can combine a lot of things.
You can combine PPL/IR and take both checkrides in the same week.
You can solo in a tailwheel or complex/high performance.
You canít find a school willing to do it but you could even solo in a multi engine.
Very few people have the aptitude to combine Private and IR though.
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Old 02-17-2019, 01:46 AM   #4  
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61.65
(a) General. A person who applies for an instrument rating must:

(1) Hold at least a current private pilot certificate, or be concurrently applying for a private pilot certificate, with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

How you can get to the 50 hours x-country and 40 hours instrument instruction before you get to PVT minimums is beyond me. I seem to recall at one time there was guidance that the 3 hours instrument instruction for the PVT did not count towards the 40 required for the IR because the goals of the training were different. Not sure what the current take is on that.
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Old 02-17-2019, 05:32 AM   #5  
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I heard of a fellow who got his Private in his own twin-engine Piper Navajo. (I don't think he ever got an ASEL.)
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:14 AM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
61.65
(a) General. A person who applies for an instrument rating must:

(1) Hold at least a current private pilot certificate, or be concurrently applying for a private pilot certificate, with an airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift rating appropriate to the instrument rating sought;

How you can get to the 50 hours x-country and 40 hours instrument instruction before you get to PVT minimums is beyond me. I seem to recall at one time there was guidance that the 3 hours instrument instruction for the PVT did not count towards the 40 required for the IR because the goals of the training were different. Not sure what the current take is on that.
Fly 50hrs PIC under solo XC endorsements and log the Instrument instruction accordingly.
I had a student solo at 16 and he took his Private on his 17th birthday and hit Instrument two days later.
And you are correct about the 3hrs Instrument requirement for the Private.
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Old 02-17-2019, 08:18 AM   #7  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twin Wasp View Post
How you can get to the 50 hours x-country and 40 hours instrument instruction before you get to PVT minimums is beyond me.
People are funny. I knew a guy who got over 270 student hours on his own Cessna 170 - most of it student solo - before his insurance company refused to insure him unless he actually got his private. The dude loved to fly but was apparently afraid to take the test.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:29 AM   #8  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
People are funny. I knew a guy who got over 270 student hours on his own Cessna 170 - most of it student solo - before his insurance company refused to insure him unless he actually got his private. The dude loved to fly but was apparently afraid to take the test.
Haha that's almost what I did. My Navy buddy got his CFI and I was his first guinea pig. Between deployments and laziness on both of our parts it took a couple years. He just kept endorsing me. Finally had to knock it out so I could take my new girlfriend (now wife) on a weekend trip.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:20 PM   #9  
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Quote:
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And you are correct about the 3hrs Instrument requirement for the Private.
Got a reference for this, as long as your CFI is also a -II?
My DPE accepted those hours. He said it came up in one of their DPE seminars once.
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Old 02-18-2019, 04:01 AM   #10  
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Quote:
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Got a reference for this, as long as your CFI is also a -II?
My DPE accepted those hours. He said it came up in one of their DPE seminars once.
Mmmmm....Iím thinking I may have been wrong there as an Instrument rating requires the 40hrs of simulated or actual instrument time but only 15 with a CFII so the 3 hrs required for Private should count towards the 40 but not the 15.
Unless itís logged as training req under 61.65(d)(2).
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