brendon7358

Hello,


First here is some background. I am 23, married, currently in the Air Force and live in North Carolina. I joined to eventually crossover to officer and become a pilot but have since decided to just go the civilian route using my GI bill along the way if possible. I got my PPL last year and currently have just over 52 hours.



My plan is once I get out of the military (between March and June of 2021), I will move down to Jacksonville, FL where my parents live. I don't plan on staying with them but I will if I have to. Once there my plan is to go to ATP flight school with PPL credit (costs about $70k), so between now and then I need to build about 35 more hours. At my local flight school a C172 is $150 wet and a 150 is $130 wet so that will cost me about $5000 so in the end $75,000+ minus however much I can save with the GI bill. I would need to take out a loan for ATP of about $70k.



The reason I want to go with ATP is it's quick, only 6 months. I'm already behind the curve from the military so I want to try to catch up as quick as possible.


Alternate plan: Would it be reasonable (I know its a gamble) to just buy a 172 or Cherokee 140/180 or even a 150. I would need to finance it, as I could only put down about $5k right now but a $20k or so loan pales in comparison to $70k. Then maybe take out a personal loan of I'm not sure how much and do all the training with my own airplane wherever I can? I don't know if it would actually save me much in the long run but at least I would own the airplane in the end.



Main problem with plan #2 is I think it would take longer, not look as good on a resume, and I might not be able to come up with the cash for flight training.


I really don't know how student loans for flight training works, or how the GI bill will help with flight training, from what I looked up online I think it only covers $14,000 a year which would be not nearly enough unless maybe I owned my own airplane.


Could you give me some advice? The only advice I'm not willing to hear is to just become an officer and be an air force pilot, my reasoning for that is below:

• My vision is corrected to 20/20 but not corrected I don't think it would be good enough (20/400)
• It would take WAY longer 4 years for bachelors + 2 years for OTS and flight training (minimum) + a service commitment of probably 6 years so 12 years total vs doing it civilian I can get similar hours and bachelors degree in about 8-10 years I believe
• Always a chance I could fail flight training or get in trouble later in my career and not be able to fly, and therefore just wasting my time until I can separate

Thanks!

cons

Owning a plane is expensive, especially on your own. You have to factor in maintenance, insurance, annual, tie down/hangar fees, fuel...did I mention maintenance? You also need to pay for an instructor, so in the end I don't think it would cost much less than just going to a flight school and renting. Much less headache and stress than owning a plane.

My advice would be to get your ratings while you're in the military, pay as you go. Not sure if your schedule allows you to do that, even if it's training on the weekends. You may have to pay out of pocket, but it would end up costing you less if you get your training done at a mom-and-pop school as opposed to atps. Because 1 1/2 years before you start your IR is a long time. I mean honestly, you should be able to get your IR and Comm in a 1 1/2 years even if you just train on the weekends.

brendon7358

This is an idea, but thing is I can only really afford at MOST $600 a month for training right now, unless I took out a loan but I'm trying to pay off most of my debt before I get out of the military. I guess whats the difference though because I will need to eventually. I could also use the GI bill, but generally using the GI bill before separation is a bad idea because you don't get as many benefits.

TiredSoul

I don’t think ATP is your best option.
With decent weather you can do 0-CPL at any decent school.
Which means you could have your CFI in 6 months.
My knowledge may not be up to date but I thought the GI Bill paid for most (70%?) of your training after the Private.
So you wouldn’t need a $70K loan.
AFAIK GI Bill requires Part 141 training and many schools hold that certification.

stevecv

I have not heard great things about ATP from people who went through their programs. A 141 school is a great thing but it is much more money, and only a small amount of your 52hrs will transfer. Part 61 is probably the best choice.

I have to say it really is not the worst idea to buy a Cessna 150 or Piper Archer for your training. Just about any flight school will allow you to use your own airplane. You'll just have to run the numbers to see if it makes sense, and also take the effort and responsibility of operating an aircraft into account. The greatest advantage I can tell you is that you'll have complete and total control over when you fly and can practice all you want on your own. This will be especially convenient when you are getting to your CAX (commercial) minimums and practicing the maneuvers.
In the end you sell the airplane for a relatively small loss, and move on to get a job teaching.

flat_land_flyer

I 100% agree with TiredSoul.

This is your decision and you know what is best for you and your family. ATP works for people and they do some things that are pretty good. They will also waste your time and money, ie private multi before commercial then Multi commercial add-on.

Being you have the 9/11 GI Bill, and your PPL. I would recommend you find a 141 school. You are 100%, and can go to MEI for free. I'm still in, and went from 0 time to MEI for about $5K, which was spent during private training (Not covered by the GI Bill).

The down side of that is you will have to find a school attached to a college, get your BS in Aviation. It is a bit of a hassle, but you will have a degree, 1000 R-ATP, and ready to build your time.

I can't recommend direct bill. There is a a lot of "gotcha's" going GI Bill direct.

Whichever path you choose, I hope it goes smoothly.

PM if you have any questions.

Jmsb11

Just to offer an option, you can use your G.I. Bill at Florida state college at Jacksonville partnered with sunrise aviation it’s a 2-year program and you get R-ATP to lower your requirement down to 1250 hrs. Since it’s attached to a degree program, the G.I. Bill covers up to the minimums for ins, comm, multi, and CFI (ppl is out of pocket here) plus you’ll get BAH. It’s definitely a slower path than ATP or some normal flight school, if I had means to get it done sooner without the degree, I would, but I should be graduating with little to no debt, and I’m very thankful for that.
The fact that you already have your ppl will help a bunch and you could probably get everything done quicker than 2 years.
On the other side of the coin, if you can get as much done while you’re in, take it into consideration. I sometimes feel foolish for getting out so early for an uncertain future, regardless of all the “pilot shortage” hooplah. Try to maximize the time you have left while you can, maybe even reconsider giving ots a shot.
I’m currently in my comm syllabus at FSCJ by the way. If you have any questions for me, feel free to let me know

FullFlaps

1. See if your base has a flying club with an instructor. The one by me has IFR 172's for $100 bucks an hour wet. Instructor is $25 an hour. It's mostly senior officers that don't get to fly enough during their day job or enlisted guys getting their ratings. If you're lucky one of the instructors is also a DPE.

2. Use your GI Bill at a 141 school while you're still in.

3. Liberty University online and GI Bill it. You might get partial BAH but im not to sure about that. Kids at my FBO doing Liberty are finishing the flight portion of training around 18 months, PPL to MEI. They will take you with a PPL but you have to do instrument through MEI with them. You probably will have to take out a few loans but nothing oppressive. Most guys have side jobs while they do it, uber, waiter / waitress etc. You finish you're bachelors online while you CFI and you get an R-ATP.

4. Don't worry about being a little behind the power curve it's a marathon not a sprint. Enjoy the ride.