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Old 05-15-2007, 02:09 PM   #1  
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Default Logging Total Time

If I am flying with my dad whom is a private pilot acting as PIC in a 172, can I sit right seat and log total time? I have my commercial ASEL, so I don't see why I couldn't log it. It doesn't seem like the best way to log time to me because I wouldn't really be doing anything. Do airlines look down on this?
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Old 05-15-2007, 02:43 PM   #2  
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Originally Posted by Oblique View Post
If I am flying with my dad whom is a private pilot acting as PIC in a 172, can I sit right seat and log total time? I have my commercial ASEL, so I don't see why I couldn't log it. It doesn't seem like the best way to log time to me because I wouldn't really be doing anything. Do airlines look down on this?
Don't log it. Total time doesn't mean "airplane ride", it means any time you are acting as an FAA-required crewmember. The only time a non-flying pilot should log 172 time is when he is:

1) A CFI giving dual.
2) A safety pilot who is rated in the airplane, and the flight is conducted so as to make safety pilot time legal (see other recent threads on this subject).

The airlines would consider this a misrepresentation (translation: you would never get hired).
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:02 PM   #3  
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For that matter even the "safety pilot" route to logging time is not the best idea. (That means Dad is wearing the hood while you are watching for traffic and logging time.) I have personally seen a candidate during an airline interview get sent home because he didn't have enough multi time to be eligible for the interview after the time logged as safety pilot was subtracted from his total multi time. He was not an MEI and had split multi time with another pilot by acting as a safety pilot. (Buy a fifty hour block and split it. One guy wears the hood and logs "safety pilot" time, while the other logs PIC instrument.) I used to split time, but as both of us were MEIs it was not an issue... and we were both really learning and teaching. Perhaps that is the most important part of the time you log, that it represents accurately what you are learning through experience. Not that you are not learning with Dad; I have a couple thousand hours in the right seat with Dad and it helps me every day in the right seat of the Dornier 328JET.
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:17 PM   #4  
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well geez, all this negativity towards the safety pilot idea :P guess i should think twice about doing that too... and radar, "summer... bidding reserve" is probably the best idea i've ever heard. lol
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Old 05-15-2007, 03:29 PM   #5  
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Convince your dad to let you fly, then log the time
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Old 05-15-2007, 04:39 PM   #6  
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Convince your dad to let you fly, then log the time
I already have actually. He has only logged 10 hours in the past 12 months and I am feeling a little guilty about it. Once I'm a CFI it shouldn't be a problem. Without him I wouldn't be where I am now.
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Old 05-15-2007, 04:43 PM   #7  
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I used to split time, but as both of us were MEIs it was not an issue... and we were both really learning and teaching.

I find this logic just as flawed as safety pilot time. What are two MEI's learning from each other that they don't already know? Seems just as shady.
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Old 05-15-2007, 05:02 PM   #8  
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I find this logic just as flawed as safety pilot time. What are two MEI's learning from each other that they don't already know? Seems just as shady.
Not only shady, but illegal. I've posted on this before...the FAA only allows dual given for legit training purposes. Two MEI's giving each other dual is OBVIOUSLY time building, not flight instruction.

Safety pilot is the legal way to do this, although a few regional airlines may not have been too excited about it in the past. I don't know of any that specificly exclude it now...if in doubt, read their web sites.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:16 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radar View Post
...I used to split time, but as both of us were MEIs it was not an issue...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Not only shady, but illegal. I've posted on this before...the FAA only allows dual given for legit training purposes. Two MEI's giving each other dual is OBVIOUSLY time building, not flight instruction...
The FAA is busting MEI's for this. The regulation is 14 CFR Part 61.193 Flight instructor privileges:

"A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:

(a) A student pilot certificate;
(b) A pilot certificate;
(c) A flight instructor certificate;
(d) A ground instructor certificate;
(e) An aircraft rating;
(f) An instrument rating;
(g) A flight review, operating privilege, or recency of experience requirement of this part;
(h) A practical test; and
(i) A knowledge test."

If you can't demonstrate the instruction you are giving falls into one of these areas, then you can't act as a CFI and therefore can not log pilot-in-command time as a CFI.
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Old 05-15-2007, 06:38 PM   #10  
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The FAA is busting MEI's for this. The regulation is 14 CFR Part 61.193 Flight instructor privileges:

"A person who holds a flight instructor certificate is authorized within the limitations of that person's flight instructor certificate and ratings to give training and endorsements that are required for, and relate to:

(a) A student pilot certificate;
(b) A pilot certificate;
(c) A flight instructor certificate;
(d) A ground instructor certificate;
(e) An aircraft rating;
(f) An instrument rating;
(g) A flight review, operating privilege, or recency of experience requirement of this part;
(h) A practical test; and
(i) A knowledge test."

If you can't demonstrate the instruction you are giving falls into one of these areas, then you can't act as a CFI and therefore can not log pilot-in-command time as a CFI.

Technically there is a grey area here for training that is required by rental rules, insurance, or common sense...but realistically nobody is going to hassle you for giving dual for a reasonable, good training purpose.
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