I did it
06-01-2007, 12:06 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Originally Posted by the King
So LAFF, why didn't you fire the guy? Shouldn't you have taken control of your learning? I've never met a student who hasn't compared instructors. I won't lie, there are unethical instructors out there. But that's why a student hires the instructor who works best for them.
He was, unfortunately, the best of the lot. One had a beard - unaccenptable. One looked like he smoked pot and had 'body art'. I know he's paid his debt to society but I don't like to spend time with x-cons. Another one came up to me and said he would gladly train me for less (under the table) - no thanks...I don't like that kind of shady person.
I had already tried the aero club at the local military base. Left that place after walking in on the manager drinking at 10AM. Had to talk to the MPF flight commander about that - they didn't take any action so I took my money somewhere else.
06-01-2007, 12:12 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,242
Originally Posted by Cubdriver
How many hours do you allege this guy padded onto it? Average is something like 65 hours. Don't be hung up on the old "I do everything in half the time" thing.
06-01-2007, 01:15 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
I can't wait to hear your sob story when ATP takes you for a ride.
Any time you go to a pilot factory, regardless of what the name is, they're going to be just that. A factory. The faster they churn you out, the faster they can get the next sap willing to pay to play. Quantity over quality. And do you think that instructors that have only been at it for three months are experience? Hell no. I wasn't and I was flying 80 hours per month. Low time CFIs trained by low time CFIs mean you don't get the most for your money.
Slice said it best. The students that study on their own time will save themselves money and time because we have to spend less time spoon-feeding them. It sure is amazing, I've had students that have taken over 80 hours to get their rating (LAFF will accuse me of stringing them along) and students do it in just under 50. I would much rather fly with the guys that do it in less time. No, I don't make as much money on them but yes, I'll usually do more worthwhile training with them when they move on to advanced ratings.
Any time you go to a pilot factory, regardless of what the name is, they're going to be just that. A factory. The faster they churn you out, the faster they can get the next sap willing to pay to play. Quantity over quality. And do you think that instructors that have only been at it for three months are experience? Hell no. I wasn't and I was flying 80 hours per month. Low time CFIs trained by low time CFIs mean you don't get the most for your money.
Slice said it best. The students that study on their own time will save themselves money and time because we have to spend less time spoon-feeding them. It sure is amazing, I've had students that have taken over 80 hours to get their rating (LAFF will accuse me of stringing them along) and students do it in just under 50. I would much rather fly with the guys that do it in less time. No, I don't make as much money on them but yes, I'll usually do more worthwhile training with them when they move on to advanced ratings.
06-01-2007, 01:42 PM
#34
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 45
I do not think my instructor is crooked. He said I will be ready to solo in about 3 more hours ( I have 4 hours.). I control the plane maybe 85-90% of the time. I know what I am doing, basically. I have read through the Jeppesen book about 3 times, and answered about 90% of the review questions correctly.
I am just anxious because I want to make my first milestone (solo)m and I was planning on doing it this week, but it looks like it will be next week.
Another question . . . I am going to be an ag pilot, as I have always wanted to do that. No BSJS for me. Never wanted to do airlines for some reason.
DO I have to get my instrument? I heard that I can get a restricted commercial. Is this true?
I am planning on getting my instrument and full commercial later down the road.
Any tips or pointers?
I am just anxious because I want to make my first milestone (solo)m and I was planning on doing it this week, but it looks like it will be next week.
Another question . . . I am going to be an ag pilot, as I have always wanted to do that. No BSJS for me. Never wanted to do airlines for some reason.
DO I have to get my instrument? I heard that I can get a restricted commercial. Is this true?
I am planning on getting my instrument and full commercial later down the road.
Any tips or pointers?
06-01-2007, 01:50 PM
#35
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 848
You can get a commercial license without the IR, but you can't fly more than 50nm from your base or at night while operating as a commercial pilot. Might as well get the IR since you need 250 total time to apply for the Commercial.
06-01-2007, 02:14 PM
#36
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Without the instrument rating you are severely limited in what you can do with a commercial certificate as the king says. Get the instrument, you'll have more than enough time to do so while you're building time, especially if you're doing it part 61.
06-01-2007, 02:30 PM
#37
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: MeSAABa
Posts: 79
No doubt about it. Get the instrument rating.
Relax on the solo thing. I've had good students get themselves so worked up about getting their solo done by a predetermined time that they have set for themselves, that they keep screwing up and can't meet their own expectation... realistic or not. It is as if they said to themselves, "I need to solo by ten hours or I'm a failure." When they can't meet the expectation they get into a mental downward spiral whereby they convince themselves they are no good. Then the self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
I myself soloed at 4.3 hours. Scared the crap out of myself and quit flying for about three years. 3000 hours later I can say from experience that it was waaaaaaaaay too early.
From an instructor's standpoint... I like the way the Cessna part 141 syllabus has the student solo just before X-country work and then they are done. No solo until private pilot proficiency has been demonstrated. That's not to milk people, but to be assured that they are safe. The mindset of solo at five hours comes out of the old school seventies Cessna program. I think it puts pressure on students far to early in their training and puts instructors unfairly in the position of being stereotyped as milking their student. In the kindest sense possible, I've seen it more than a couple of times before where a student tries to pressure their instructor and then moves into blaming their instructor for not letting them solo. It is indicative of one of the five hazardous attitudes. Very few, less than 1 in 100, are truly ready to solo in ten or fifteen hours. Don't put yourself in that category because it is too much pressure.
The other side of the coin is that you can solo, then go blow tons of money making bad habits for yourself in the practice area flying around alone when you should have been paying the extra little bit to get it right the first time with an instructor on board. Then the instructor won't have to milk you because they will be doing all they can just to fix the mess they have got on their hands. That always takes extra time and money because they get to unteach while they teach. Newbie instructors aren't trained for that type of complication, getting it right the first time - without bad habits in the way - is complicated enough for them. An indication that the student/teacher relationship is going down this treacherous trail is when the instructor commits to soloing the student in X more hours... it is like a door opening.
Relax on the solo thing. I've had good students get themselves so worked up about getting their solo done by a predetermined time that they have set for themselves, that they keep screwing up and can't meet their own expectation... realistic or not. It is as if they said to themselves, "I need to solo by ten hours or I'm a failure." When they can't meet the expectation they get into a mental downward spiral whereby they convince themselves they are no good. Then the self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
I myself soloed at 4.3 hours. Scared the crap out of myself and quit flying for about three years. 3000 hours later I can say from experience that it was waaaaaaaaay too early.
From an instructor's standpoint... I like the way the Cessna part 141 syllabus has the student solo just before X-country work and then they are done. No solo until private pilot proficiency has been demonstrated. That's not to milk people, but to be assured that they are safe. The mindset of solo at five hours comes out of the old school seventies Cessna program. I think it puts pressure on students far to early in their training and puts instructors unfairly in the position of being stereotyped as milking their student. In the kindest sense possible, I've seen it more than a couple of times before where a student tries to pressure their instructor and then moves into blaming their instructor for not letting them solo. It is indicative of one of the five hazardous attitudes. Very few, less than 1 in 100, are truly ready to solo in ten or fifteen hours. Don't put yourself in that category because it is too much pressure.
The other side of the coin is that you can solo, then go blow tons of money making bad habits for yourself in the practice area flying around alone when you should have been paying the extra little bit to get it right the first time with an instructor on board. Then the instructor won't have to milk you because they will be doing all they can just to fix the mess they have got on their hands. That always takes extra time and money because they get to unteach while they teach. Newbie instructors aren't trained for that type of complication, getting it right the first time - without bad habits in the way - is complicated enough for them. An indication that the student/teacher relationship is going down this treacherous trail is when the instructor commits to soloing the student in X more hours... it is like a door opening.
Last edited by Radar; 06-01-2007 at 03:07 PM.
06-01-2007, 02:36 PM
#38
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Radar
No doubt about it. Get the instrument rating.
Relax on the solo thing. I've had good students get themselves so worked up about getting their solo done by a predetermined time that they have set for themselves, that they keep screwing up and can't meet their own expectation... realistic or not. It is as if they said to themselves, "I need to solo by ten hours or I'm a failure." When they can't meet the expectation they get into a mental downward spiral whereby they convince themselves they are no good. Then the self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
Relax on the solo thing. I've had good students get themselves so worked up about getting their solo done by a predetermined time that they have set for themselves, that they keep screwing up and can't meet their own expectation... realistic or not. It is as if they said to themselves, "I need to solo by ten hours or I'm a failure." When they can't meet the expectation they get into a mental downward spiral whereby they convince themselves they are no good. Then the self-fulfilling prophecy kicks in.
I hate planning things, because things never go as planned. I am just making my through it. My instructor said I should be ready by hour 7 or 8.If not, no skin off my back. That is just one more hours to log heh heh.
So I guess I will get my instrument then.
06-01-2007, 03:09 PM
#39
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: MeSAABa
Posts: 79
Good. That's exactly how you should be thinking. It will bring you success in your training.
As to LAFF... I'm standing right by Cubdriver on this one.
You'll enjoy the instrument rating and it will give you a much deeper intuitive knowledge of the pitch/power relationship.
As to LAFF... I'm standing right by Cubdriver on this one.
You'll enjoy the instrument rating and it will give you a much deeper intuitive knowledge of the pitch/power relationship.
06-01-2007, 04:02 PM
#40
CA
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: I am the Captain now...
Posts: 1,006
Hi xPigx.... Radar is 100% correct in his statements concerning soloing. When I was an instructor, some of my students soloed in as little as 12 hours, but most were around 15 to 20. The highest being 55 hours- don't ask, he wasn't really cut out to fly, but he finally did it. IMHO, setting all these time frames and deadlines takes all the fun out of earning your PPL ticket. Sit back, relax- enjoy your PPL training. But don't forget, this training is the foundation of the type of pilot you will become.
And as for the instrument training- go for it! Like the others on here said, it's building time towards your 250 for your commercial. And on top of it, you will be surprised at how much more precise your flying will be after you get your instrument ticket.
Also, on the topic of ATPs... I've really only used them for written exams and some multi engine block time. The instructors are nice people, but it's just another pilot factory. Find a good instructor who you get along well with, and stick with him/her. Don't forget, ATP is a pilot factory- and a lot of those guys have SJS, so the minute Mesa or Pinnacle calls, they're gone and you're out an instructor.
And as for the instrument training- go for it! Like the others on here said, it's building time towards your 250 for your commercial. And on top of it, you will be surprised at how much more precise your flying will be after you get your instrument ticket.
Also, on the topic of ATPs... I've really only used them for written exams and some multi engine block time. The instructors are nice people, but it's just another pilot factory. Find a good instructor who you get along well with, and stick with him/her. Don't forget, ATP is a pilot factory- and a lot of those guys have SJS, so the minute Mesa or Pinnacle calls, they're gone and you're out an instructor.
