I think I found a good thing...
 

Hi everybody,

I have been looking around for a good school for a few months now.

I've seen the ATP program, seems ok, but not enough total hours at the end of the 90 day fast track to do anything with, and the rest of the big "academys" are all pretty much the same as far as being over priced and set up to get you in and out in as little time possible. Long story short I found a place close to where I live in Los Angeles. The program breaks down like this...


zero, all the way to 1500 hours and an Airline Transport Pilot license in 27 to 30 months - guaranteed - This will include eight different licenses and 500 to 600 hours of multiengine time, of which 500 will be in a heavy turboprop twin engine cargo-airline plane in real world environment.

It is divided into three parts:

Phase one
basic training, giving the student all the required ratings and licenses to become a Commercial Multiengine Pilot and Certified Flight Instructor for Primary, and Instrument.

Phase two
Is the actual internship/training, through which the student builds his/her experience and confidence as PIC, teaching other students in their initial training, and attending mandatory training seminars held by the Chief instructor or his delegates, (Airline interview preparation, career counseling, advanced training techniques, CRM, Turboprop bridge program etc.).

Phase three
Will be a Graduation Grant of 500 hours of training as SIC on a Twin-Engine Turboprop Cargo airplane (Shorts 360, Metroliner, BE-200, BE-1900 or BE-99), in "Real World Environment" with one of our contracted cargo airlines. This will be followed by preparation and achievement of the US Airline Transport Pilot License (FAA-ATPL) at which point the course will be considered ended.

• [*]

LMAO, I believe what that means is that they will find you a job for 500 hrs in which you may not be paid.

Part 2 sounds like you might not get paid either.

In the end, sounds like you'll be working ("training") but not getting paid.

EDIT: http://rainbowair.com/academy_ptip.htm if anyone wants to see the site.

thanks, but how is that different than any of the other programs mentioned on this site?

need some advice not someone say LMAO and spew out some useless ish.

please.

Pardon me, i'm not spewing out useless information. Heres what I suggest, don't spend $62000+ getting your ATP over 2 and a half years. Go to ATP, do your PPL in 60 days, Carreer pilot program in 90, thats 5 months. Train for a few months at ATP (maybe 3 months), build up couple hundred hours Multi and then get hured by a regional.

You do realize that all that time your gaining at Rainbow Air is just you working for zip, ATP at least pays you, plus you could be working at a regional in 10 months easily.

My advice is there are no shortcuts. Get your CFI, work for a while, and work your way up. That's it. End of discussion.

Thanks RJ and de727,

but how do we know that rainbow air dosn't pay? If they don't, then that is a serious problem.

and I will get my CFII if I do go the rainbow route and be working up 1000hrs for about the same price as ATP.

whats the difference?

BTW,

is 2 years really a shortcut?

Those guys are right. That place sounds like one of those golden scams. Flight schools are famous for them. They make it sound like a great gig, but it's far from the truth.
If you want to get done as fast as possible, take their advice and go to www.allatps.com; spend $40,000 and then flight instruct for a while to build multi time.
You can get hired by a regional airline with around 500TT and 100 multi these days and they will give you your ATP certificate for free when you're ready to upgrade. You'll still probably save $20,000 and at least one year off of that program you found.

Thanks daytona,

so I'm gathering that ATP is most likely to be the best place to go for good instruction, experience, price and timeframe.

I am a little worried about feeling like I'm being run through a production line, and not getting a very personalized experience though.

I will go check out ATP's school in Long Beach. I think it's close to Rainbow, so I can stop by there to see first hand how drastic the difference is.

Thanks all for the advice so far...

No ATP is not the best place to go. It is one of many options in the country. Search the archives here. There is a wealth of info. PS-ATP is over $50K these days if you figure in the PPL training. You can do it for at least 40% less elsewhere.

Then go to your local FBO and train there. Find an instructor who can work with you on your schedule and get done that way. And yeah, two years would be a shortcut. You'll pay your dues one way or the other.

I read an thread about Rainbow over at PPRUNE, here it is.

Read down to read the complaints: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213688

Interesting stuff RJ.


So maybe it isn't such a bad idea to shop around for a very local "FBO" (still don't know exact meaning), around Burbank, Van Nuys, or Whittman, at least to get certified up to MEII, but I will still need to get a loan. I can't really pay as I go right now. Don't have enough $$ coming in to get this done in a timely manner and still pay the bills. So, I have decided to use my GI Bill benefits [Coast Guard], which will pay for 60% of every billable hour, up to around $35,000 (except for my private license). The private cert will cost me at least $2500-$3500 right up front if I shop around. I will pay for that part out of pocket from my savings. No problem. Although it would be nice to just factor that cost into the total $ amt of the student loan I will ultimately have to get, to include every certification, exam fee, add on, transition, etc.. And make payments on it once I get a better paying job. But here's the catch, the VA will only pay out $1000 per month, once they start receiving claims. And again, only at a rate of 60% of every billable hour they receive a claim for. Which basically means I will have to get a loan, rack up as many billable hours as possible in a month, and then use the $1000 GI checks to make payments on my loan (until they run out), at which point I will be paying from savings again. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that time, really is of the essence in this case. So I will get a loan, be able to make about 35 monthly payments of $1000 and then... hopefully after 35 months or 3 years, I'll be hired on with a company making enough money to pay the rest of the loan off (probably another $35,000), that could be stretched out over the next 15 years if necessary, and still pay the bills.

UNDER THESE CERCUMSTANCES...


In your opinion, would it be better to go to an ATP type program, or continue on with "FBO" after I complete my private cert.?

This is his attempt to knock ATP as a get there quick scheme...Its not. ATP is a refined / well-tested method of getting a pilot from - hours to regional hiring levels with the least amount of time wasted at the FBO in Florence, Alabama.

Go to ATP and get the training / experience you deserve.

-LAFF

Excuse me, in everyone’s opinion...

Don't go to your local FBO. It will set you back in time and money. Research and attend a accelerated program.

-LAFF

Thanks LAFF,

You really stand behind this ATP progi huh!

I really am tending to agree with u Mr. -LAFF

It should be noted that LAFF is a weekend warrior who has never attended a single day of instruction at ATP.

Find a good FBO (Fixed Base Operator) with a dedicated instructor. I've been on both sides of the fence, and this is truly the cheaper/better way of doing things.

LAFF has no experience....most other people on here do.

Cheaper - yeah right.

Better - no argument...Its better for the FBO CFI building time on the students dime.

-LAFF

I did portions of my training at a couple different "FBOs," Delta Connection Academy, and American Flyers.

The one thing I can say for certain about ALL of these schools is that nothing is certain. The only person who can choose the best school for you, is YOU. Go visit the places, talk with some instructors, and pick the one that you feel fits your need the best.

There is no "best" flight school. It all depends on what you are going for exactly, and even within the same flight school, your experience can change drastically from one instructor to the next.

My advice is to not listen to anybody who sais "go here! they're the best!" because while they had a good experience, you may not. Just do your homework and you'll be fine.

"This is his attempt to knock ATP as a get there quick scheme..."

Actually, it wasn't, but now that you mention it....

LAFF is a private pilot and has never trained at ATP.

As you look around at schools, if Rainbow Air seems like a good place to train, then knock yourself out. I'd be wary of a place that promises this and that, when it comes to experience in advanced aircraft, or employment. The industry doesn't work that way because it's not necessary.

Like I said, shop around, and take your best shot. No problem with me if it's ATP, either, but I'm not a fan of going from PPL to CFIMEI in 90 days and then starting to teach the next guy.

"My advice is to not listen to anybody who sais "go here! they're the best!" because while they had a good experience"

Even more so don't listen to someone who says "go here, they're the best" who HASN'T gone there...

Must be nice changing your posts...Why not change it back to what it was...I know - you would only prove my point by attacking me and not my arguments. The original post had no substance and avoided the core issues.


Whats wrong with 90 day pilots who then teach the next guy?

-LAFF

LAFF is a private pilot. He has never attended ATP or even visited one of their locations. Hell, at least I did the FEw prep there on the computer. So, I've got more experience there than he does. The bigger the ad in the flying magazines, the more you should stay away because YOU(or others like you) are the one's paying for it.

Ninety days after you start flight training, you're still crossing your fingers during landing hoping you don't porpoise.

Yes I do...You'll find guys like De, POPA, and Slice throughout aviation. They are against any and everything that doesn't fit their own experience.

Don't worry about them. Do your research and you realize that ATP is a better deal than an FBO.

The whole notion that you can find a dedicated CFI is a waste of your time and your money.

-LAFF

I'm against guys promoting a program they've never been through as if they had been. Period.

I'm doing no more than sharing my research w/ others.

Anytime now the self-appointed defender of the realm De727 will pipe in with his 'he's only a PPL' post...

-LAFF

Oh stop it! Sheesh! Can't we all just get along and have different opinions?!

Ready2fly- I go to ATP and I love it. Simple as that. It works for me. An FBO did not fit what I was trying to achieve in my time frame and my situation. DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. Research all of your options! If you choose to go the ATP way, great, if not, then great too - it's all about what works for YOU.

MHM

pick whatever is the best for you, in my opinion atp school is a little too high in price for the product. buying your way into a jet job isn't really a short cut. you can get there just as fast by doing your ratings at a local fbo. I would venture to guess that most fbos, if you sat down and spoke with the manager, would work out an arrangement with you to be a full time student and have an instructor scheduled with you for multiple sessions per day and you would be able to finish in just as short of a time period with somewhere around half of the cost of the brand name schools. I had a couple of students when I was instructing that wanted to do this type of thing. Got them through their cfi and multi in about 6 months start to finish. They both had airline jobs within the next year and gained a lot of experience teaching at a small fbo. I enjoyed that route myself. taught for about 2 years and made contacts and flew some part 91 twins. 2000TT and 500ME in two years while in college at a big twelve university. I'm now at my number one top choice regional and my cost of training was.....about $26,000. I was happy with my route but everyone has to do what's best for them.

"Anytime now the self-appointed defender of the realm De727 will pipe in with his 'he's only a PPL' post..."

LAFF is only a PPL....

While I never considered myself defender of anything. In my own defense, I'll say I've been flying since 1976, a CFI since 1980, and working in biz as a 121 crewmember since 1987. I'm currently a UPS 757/767 Capt based in Ontario, CA. Oh yeah, I garnered enough respect from the APC admins that they made me a mod here.

If LAFF see's me as a "defender of the realm", then I wear that with pride, as it seems the masses of experieced pilots that are beating him into the dirt at APC are starting to wear on him.

LOL....Only a matter of time before the 'I'm an APC Admin' line started to show up in your posts...

-LAFF

Mod, not Admin. Big difference.

I attend ATP now and I think it was a good decision. comparing the time you get and the price you pay for it. ATP overwhelmingly beat other schools. There's no other of the big Schools out there that gives you the ME time that ATP does and the time that they do it. It's not the best way to go if you're not a quick learner I've seen Several people asked/forced to leave the program. By far IMO it's the quickest and best way to go for the product and price

Here's where I did my evaluations before I made my decision to go to ATP

http://www.fltops.com/flightschools.asp

Congrats! You picked the least expensive of the overpriced schools.