MacrossJet

How do you calculate total time? In my logbook I have Airplane SEL. Airplane MEL. Dual Received & Pilot in Command. I'm guessing that I would add SEL, MEL, dual received and PIC to get my total time. Right? Is that correct???

Thank you in advance for all answers.

Myfingershurt

I think that might have you counting some hours twice. All your dual received was either SEL or MEL right? Isn’t there a column to the far right of your log book that has time of each flight. I’m pretty sure you just add all those up. It should equal SEL plus MEL. Total time is just that, the time you spent at the controls of an airplane or as a required crew member of an airplane.

tanker

There are instances where you can log both dual and PIC, in which case your dual and PIC hours will be more than your flight hours. As was previously said the total time in aircraft (SEL, MEL, Helo, SES, MES, Glider, etc,) will equal your total flight hours.

rickair7777

Yes for a typical career-track pilot it's ASEL + AMEL (plus other category/class if you have any). Everything else would overlap with that stuff.

TiredSoul

Don’t you have a Total Time column?
Total time is all time including approved simulators and flight training devices.
PIC and dual received are not “time”, they’re an explanation of how that time was spent.

tanker

I’m not sure simulator time counts as flight time. I know I don’t count it in total time, but I do keep track of it in my logbook

Myfingershurt

It’s not total time but it can be used in calculating time towards certain certs.

TiredSoul

Total Time = Total Time, that’s what the word means.
Flight time does not necessarily need to equal Total Time.
Lets not get too wrapped around the axle here, if an approved FTD counts towards Part 61/141 Instrument time then it’s Total Time.
I count my Level C/D simulator time towards my Total Time so my flight time is TT - Sim.
Easy piecy lemon squeezy.

JohnBurke

Generally speaking, pilot in command time, second in command time, and instruction received, should add to total time. This isn't always the case, and depends on your certification and what you're flying and the circumstances under which you're flying. Flight engineer time, for example is neither PIC nor SIC, but it is flight time and one might log it as total time, though neither PIC nor SIC.

Category/class time may not add to total time, again depending on your certification and what your'e flying, and the circumstances. If you're adding single engine land and multi engine land airplane time, for example, and you have any glider, helicopter, or seaplane time, then just the land classifications won't add to total time.

I don't put any simulator time in my log as anything but simulator. I don't consider it in totals, or show it as anything, in any column in the logbook, but simulator. I don't log it as PIC, SIC, or even show it as instruction received (I stopped tracking that about 35 years ago). I don't show it as total time, or multi-engine time, or any other classification, and I have a note on the page stating that simulator isn't listed as anything but simulator.

Early in your career, when you want to get as many hours as possible in a logbook, you will probably want to count the hours in the simulator. I did, initially, but as time went by, I decided that I didn't want any of the simulator time, whether it was big level D sims, or little desktop ATC or Frasca stuff, confused with my flight time, so I removed it from the totals . I don't list simulator time as instrument time, either. I only log it to record the training, but it doesn't impact any totals in the logbook. It may be useful to record approaches, for currency, and it shows training leading up to a type rating and the date of the checkride. I put proficiency checks and proficiency training in there, too...but again, just to have a record in the logbook of when, and what was covered. It's not reflected on a resume or in any totals, and given that I don't take my logbook with me to training, and thus there aren't any instructor signatures accompanying the sim time, for my logbook, it's just a record for me, and nothing more.

In my logbook, if I add glider, helicopter, and and airplane single and multi engine land and sea, it comes out to total time, and if I add PIC, SIC, and FE time it comes out to total time. Bear in mind that there are a lot of combinations of columns in a logbook that won't add up. Some time gets duplicated; someone giving instruction might log it as instruction given and as PIC. Likewise solo and PIC, though PIC isn't always solo. One can also be in a situation in which both pilots are logging PIC, or neither pilot can log anything. Take the case of a Cessna 172 flown by a private pilot, and a private pilot right seat passenger. The private pilot, in the left seat, is the pilot in command for the flight. It's a single pilot airplane, He logs PIC as sole manipulator of the controls. When he has the private pilot in the right seat manipulate the controls, the left seat pilot remains pilot in command, but can't log the time; there's no basis to log it. He can't log total time for the period the right seat pilot is flying, because total time needs a classification regarding the type of pilot time under which one is qualified to log the time. The pilot in command isn't sole manipulator. He's not PIC of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member. He's pilot in command, but can't log the time as total time or as PIC. The right seat pilot can log PIC time as sole manipulator of the controls. He can list it as total time for the duration he's sole manipulator.

If the left seat pilot places a hood on the right seat pilot (who continues to manipulate the controls), now the flight requires a second pilot under the regulations by which the flight is operated. Now the left seat pilot in command is PIC of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member. He's a required crewmember, and also the PIC. He may log PIC, and the right seat pilot as sole manipulator, may also log PIC. If the flight is one hour and two pilots log PIC, now there's two hours of PIC in logbooks somewhere, for one hour of flying. Legal.

Change the scenario slightly. Instead of a private pilot in the right seat, make it an uncertificated passenger. Private pilot PIC in the left seat manipulates the controls, logs PIC, logs the time as total time. Uncertificated passenger in the right seat logs nothing. Passenger manipulates the controls. PIC in the left seat remains the legal pilot in command, but is not entitled to log the time, as he meets no definition for logging PIC under Part 61.51. He can't log total time, either. There's no category of pilot time which qualifies to log the time; he's neither PIC, nor SIC. Now there is a situation in which neither pilot can log the time. In the paragraph above, both pilots can log the time, but in this paragraph, neither can log it. Again, the circumstances may dictate, as may the aircraft (certification for one or more crew members, etc).

Private pilot passenger in the right seat manipulates the controls, private pilot in the left seat is the pilot in command. Left seat pilot logs nothing, right seat pilot logs the time. The aircraft is a Stinson Voyager. Conventional gear (tailwheel). The left seat PIC has a conventional gear (tailwheel) endorsement, the right seat pilot does not. The right seat pilot still logs PIC and total time, while the left seat pilot, who is still acting as pilot in command, logs nothing. The right seat pilot logs time because he is private pilot, airplane, single engine land...he lacks a tailwheel endorsement and thus cannot be the pilot in command, but an endorsement isn't required to log time, so he can log it as PIC. This is the difference between acting as PIC (being the actual pilot in command), and logging time. Two different subjects.

The point is that there may be inconsistencies or differences in the way time is logged, and the crew responsibilities that one might have on a flight . At an operation where I used to work, it wasn't uncommon to go out on a training flight with a number of crew on board, and rotate through the pilot and flight engineer positions. One might, on a given flight, ride for a portion, act as flight engineer for a portion, and spend time in both left and right seats, performing duties of PIC and SIC, before the training flight returned to land. Multiple classifications of pilot time occurred during the flight, and some of it was not logged, while some of it was total time but not pilot time, etc.

The subtleties and legalities of logging time do change somewhat, as the regulation evolves. It's very possible to have time logged that doesn't meet the current regulation or practice. It used to be common place to not get a type rating in the airplane until one was going for upgrade, for example, at certain places; one would have time logged in aircraft for which a type rating is required, but no type rating. SIC practices and logging has subtly changed or evolved, too. The definitions of complex and high performance have shifted back and forth and for many of us, time was logged in tailwheel airplanes well before any endorsements were required. I have time in aircraft well over 12,500 lbs, with no type rating in the airplane: no type rating is available for those particular aircraft, even though the general rule is a type rating above 12,500 lbs. Single pilot, in certain cases, too.

Does one log seaplane time in an amphibious aircraft, even if the gear stays down the entire flight and it never operates on water? Sure, one can. Seaplane time in a seaplane on straight floats is obvious enough, but what if the floats aren't seaworthy, and the airplane operates on wheels only? Is it the capability, the current condition as modified by a MEL or other airworthiness paperwork, or is it the certification? Think about it.

Going back to the original question about adding times: if all you've ever flown is single engine and multi engine land airplanes, and the entire duration of every flight was able to be logged (total time), then yes, your SEL and MEL airplane time should equal total time. If your PIC and Dual received was all in the same single and multi engine land airplane, and accounts for every minute of those hours, then the PIC and Dual should add to total time. Adding SEL+MEL+PIC+Dual, however, would not equal total time. In the case you've described, again, assuming no other way of logging the time is required or appropriate, and every minute is accounted for in the total hours, then MEL+SEL=Total time, and PIC+Dual=Total time.

If, during that period, you've mixed it up, and have some safety pilot time, for example, you may have SIC time as well. If you made a 2 hour flight, and spent one hour wearing a hood and manipulating the controls in a 172, you might have one hour of pilot in command time; switching the hood to the other seat while you act strictly as safety pilot might give you one hour of SIC. Or, if you were acting as pilot in command (the legal PIC for the flight), you may have logged the whole thing as PIC (the safety pilot time also as PIC because you'd have been PIC of an aircraft requiring more than one crew member. If you logged one hour as PIC and one as SIC, then you'd show that as PIC+SIC+Dual=Total time, and breaking down that flight specifically, you'd show it as PIC (1 hr) + SIC (1 hr) = Total time (2 hrs).

It used to be that in an interview, a quick logbook check could be made to add up pilot time to see if it equalled total time, and then add up category/class time to see if it equalled total time. A discrepancy in either case was a red flag that indicated the logbook owner wasn't very diligent in maintaining his logs. That said, there are numerous cases in which the times won't add up. One might maintain a civil logbook, with military records, and different totals in each. Employers often grant adjustments, as military flyers show flight time, but not taxi time, and are often granted an increase of their totals based on .2 or .3 per hour...what's showing in the logs won't match. If you've logged solo as a separate classification from PIC, then you'd need to add solo to the list of pilot time classifications, to get total time. If you've logged solo and PIC for the same operation, then you wouldn't necessarily want to add both together, because that will equal more than total time. You may have had solo as a student, and later flown solo and logged it strictly as PIC; in this case, you'd add some solo to PIC/SIC/Dual, but not all of it, to get total time. You may have had time logged as dual received, and PIC...which most do after receiving their private pilot. In this case, adding PIC+Dual will not equal total time, but will show a value greater than total time.

In my logbook, PIC+SIC+FE (flight engineer) = Total time. No simulator in the totals. Likewise, single engine land, single engine sea, helicopter, glider, multi engine land, etc, are added to get total time. You'll probably begin adding columns in your logbook to track other things that aren't strictly regulatory: you might have a column for conventional gear (tailwheel), complex, high performance, turboprop, turbojet, or time in specific aircraft, or types of operations. If you're flying a Cessna Caravan, insurance paperwork each year wants to know your turboprop time, Caravan time, etc. If you have enough room, keeping separate columns for that stuff makes the math easier (unless you use one of those new-fangled computerized logbooks, but who does that?). I keep track of agricultural time and firefighting time, because employers, insurance, and the government want to know those things. You can category and column yourself to death, but sometimes it's useful to know: especially when filling out job applications and so forth. The only thing you must log is the time, landings, and experience and instruction received for certificates, ratings, and privileges, and for currency. Beyond that, how you log is largely up to you, so long as you meet the requirements of the regulation. I recommend not getting too creative, as your log is a legal document, and it is something by which future employers will judge you and your professionalism.

Having said all that...if you fly a 310 and lose an engine, is it single engine time, or multi engine time? If you ditch, is it seaplane time? If you lose the second engine, is it glider time? If you are pilot in command and bail out, using a parachute for the descent, how do you log that time? If you are pilot in command on a 14 hour flight and spend four of those hours sleeping while two SIC's fly the airplane, how much total time do you log and what do the SIC's log? How much of it is PIC, for you? Can you log PIC in a high performance airplane without a high performance endorsement? Can you log SIC in an airplane that requires only one pilot? Are you required to log all dual received? If you put time in the wrong column when making a pen-and-ink entry in your logbook, how do you fix it? Will anyone care what's in your logbook ten years from now? Twenty? If you're the pilot in command of an airplane requiring two crew members and the other pilot flies an approach, can you log it for currency? If an approach is flown in simulated instrument conditions, how much of the approach must be flown to count it for an approach, for currency? Can you fly an aircraft that requires a type rating, without a type rating? If so, how would you log it? What do you think?

TiredSoul

JB for the win