12oclockHi

+1 on this!! There is no quick and easy path in any vocation where a large skill set is required/expected/tested to determine, what can be accomplished with a timeline measured in weeks and months. Think about your own education up to this point. Thirteen years from K to HS graduate. Another 4 or so for a BS or BA through any college /university system. Yes, some are able to shorten this a bit. If you are really smart, motivated and willing to put everything else aside, you can get out of some (4 year) college programs in as little as 2 years. The reality is more will take 5 years than those who finish under 4. Flying is not a vocation that can be crammed into your cranium with overnight study sessions and 8 hours sorties on good weather days. The aeronautical knowledge requirements alone fill several books with the basic requirements needed to not just pass the written tests the FAA requires, but the real world knowledge that will keep you and your passengers alive. You need time to digest, to ponder, and reflect on your flight experience, whether a dual training circuit early in your training or a solo cross country later in your training to a far off airport you have never been to. Trying to shove all this knowledge into your brain while also absorbing the flight experience and learning from the inevitable mistakes you make and learn from, it all takes time.

Do yourself a favor and those you will (invariably) fly with in the future and find both a good school that does not promise/try to crank out quick aviators but works with you, at your pace to get you the education and experience you need to be a safe, competent and (in the future) a good professional aviator. It won’t happen in 10 months, no matter how many sunny days that flying school says it gets in its region.

AArdwolf

Search the flying subreddit on Blueline aviation. Run as far away from them as you can and never look back.

Cleared4appch

This ^^^^. Everyone I know that has attended ATP has nothing but negative things to say about it. The training isn’t designed to deliver quality instruction. It’s designed to get you in and get you out as quick as possible. It’s designed to entice people to sign up to get through as quick as possible so they can get that airline seniority number asap. Because as we all know, seniority IS everything. Quality flight instruction be damned. This typically comes at a cost. To many young people, that may sound great, as they may be on the flight deck of a regional jet very soon. While that may be true, it comes at a significant cost, both financial cost and the cost of potentially failing not just one, but several checkrides, which, as was previously mentioned, will follow them for the rest of their careers. Many students rush to sign up for these places, only to end up coming away with failed checkrides and disappointment. I heard it all the time and still hear it. Many of the instructors that ATP produces got their CFI ticket in 2-3 weeks. I’m sorry, but professionals aren’t made in that short amount of time. It’s gonna take 2-3 months, at the minimum to produce a competent and capable instructor. I’ve met many people who used to teach at ATP. Many of them were lacking in knowledge in quite a few areas and their teaching skills were marginal at best. Some were good. But I think many of the ones who were better at teaching got most of their training done outside of the ATP ‘system.’ They simply came to ATP to hour-build as fast as they can.

I understand many people want to get to the regionals as quickly as possible, especially with the hiring going on in today’s environment. It’s unprecedented. Although as of late it’s beginning to slow down significantly. The hiring environment may be completely different 6-12 months from now. Don’t be in a rush to get through your training. Take your time, although I am not saying drag it out, but focus on quality and really, really absorb the material and focus on improving your piloting skills and knowledge each and every day. At ATP, there’s not enough time to do that. It’s just ‘get ready for the next checkride,’ even if you don’t feel ready for it.

There are exceptions to what I said, but my strong advice for young people or anybody really, is to steer clear of pilot mills like ATP.

JohnBurke

There's nothing wrong with not dragging out flight training, but it should be decent training. Receiving instruction for private, commercial, isntrument, multi, etc, isn't a long-term process, and it's very possible to do it in a reasonably short period of time; the hardest part of learning to fly is paying for it.

What does hurt a student is any attempt to short-cut the learning process. Wtih programs like Shepherd Air offering guarantees to pass by feeding only the information necessary to knock out an exam, there are those who will not seek any more learning or understanding than the bare minimum. There is an underlying fake-it-'till-you-make-it ethos among certain of the current crop of up-and-comings, and it's not a good thing. It's not new; parker-pen aviators with falsified logbooks and experience have been around since the early days, but as flying gets more expensive and as generations of pilots gotta-have-it-now (and whine about 1,500 hours, or the inability to be hired when minimally qualified), impatience leads to "work smarter, not harder," the mantra of the get-rich-quick kids.

Learning takes time, not just to log the flight training, but to absorb, internalize, and change; learning is defined by the result: a change in behavior. That's not an overnight proposition, and there's no substitute for experience. Simply checking boxes doesn't imbue experience or understanding. With students becoming flight instructors as raidly as possible, then working as short a time as an instructor as the student can (before rushing to an airline), there's a heritage of inexperience in the instructor ranks, and a dismal glut of inexperience pushing into the airlines as their entry-level job.

The siren-song of the seniority number as the lord god almighty sings out like a mating call, irresistable and melodic, such that the fledgling flyer can't hear his own heartbeat.

There's a secret that seems lost, but many won't hear it if it were a banner in the sky: you don't need to have it all today. Or tomorrow. It's okay if you don't hold a seniority number this week. Or next. It's allowed to enjoy the journey, take the time, get decent, quality flight training, instead of checking boxes so fast that you can't remember the color of the ink. This primary flight training forms the bedrock of everything that comes after. Take the time. Get it right. Smell the god damn flower. It will be dead when you look back. Remember it. Then go plant some more.

The industry isn't going anywhere. It will be there when you finish, and that doesn't need to be tomorrow.

I once bemoaned, as a kid, that the J-3 cub I was flying had a built-in headwind. A wise examiner with whom I was having lunch asked if I enjoyed my time in the cub. Immensely, I replied. "Then what does it matter how long it takes you to get there, if you're happy where you are?" He asked. Bob had a great point. The destination wasn't the goal. I was living and flying the goal. And enjoying it.

Enjoy it. You only pass this way once.

day7503

I currently attend Skyborne VB and I can tell you that the training is 2nd to none (I came in with my PPL from a part 61 school). I come from a family of aviators DAL, UAL, JB, and I had opportunities to attend all the big college programs but ultimately chose here. They do advertise 0 to hero in 12 months but it's not accurate, you're really looking at 15-18 months. For people with PPL it was advertised as 10 months but it's looking like it'll take me 11-12 months (I do plan on taking the first break of my time here during multi-engine training) so that contributes to it. They do have the DAL propel program which is a huge bonus, honestly, this is the main reason I'm here and I can endure everything I mention below for a job offer from them at this stage of my training.

Fair warning though, QOL isn't the best, Vero Beach is a sleepy town, with a population of fewer than 15k people and the average age being in the mid 50's - retirement ville. If you're a younger person who needs a social experience be prepared to give that up for the duration of your time here and the dating pool isn't ideal. Living arrangements aren't bad but they're not great. Depending on which building you're in you might not have your own room. I hope the person considering Skyborne enjoys golf or running because there's really not too much to do here. A bunch of breweries, wineries, and distilleries but that gets old quickly and isn't ideal for flight training or health (I'm 21 so it was fun while it lasted for about 2 weeks). All that being said though, the area is extremely safe, and the people are very nice, I think the food options here outside of grocery shopping are awesome.


Overall, I see living here as a 12-18 month sacrifice that will pay off dividends in the future. I do feel very well trained and there was a change in upper management recently that benefited the students. If the potential student is mentally tough, has a strong "why", and is willing to make some sacrifices, while being held to a high standard (check rides and stage checks are done to Skyborne standard, not just FAA ACS. Student's are required to adhere to checklists, flows, and company policy) then they could be a good fit

MikeHotel

I attended Midwest Corporate Air in Bellfountaine, OH to get my CFI certificate, but I know they offer accelarated paths to other certificates and ratings as well. I chose them after receiving some great word-of-mouth recommendations, but my own experience was mixed. The aircraft, facilities, and quality of the ground instruction were all first-rate, and the airport itself is nice. The biggest issue seemed to be that their class sizes (there were over twenty in my cohort) had grown to the point that their supply of aircraft and instructors could not meet the demand for flight time. You really had to fight to get on the schedule, and because there was a long span of inclement weather when I was there (not the school's fault, I realize) the length of training went from an advertised 10 days to nearly 30. I hope that they begin to cap their class numbers, because they could be a great school if they weren't so focused on growth.

There is also a new academy opening near me in Sebring, Florida: Rexair Professional Pilot Academy. They advertise zero to CFI in 8 months with housing included, and do all of their training in RV-12s.

TiredSoul

I don’t see training in LSA’s as a plus.
Thats only 600lbs useful load.
What about ME? Twin Comanche?

Rama

The LSA's tend to be cheaper to rent.

JohnBurke

The hardest part of learning to fly, is paying for it.

Chow

Spartan has a 17 month r-atp program, associates degree, part 141. There are a few campuses, including California, Florida, and Oklahoma. That would put the student on track for around 21 years old.

If the student is not opposed to a training contract, Republic Airways has their own training academy. It is called LIFT Academy, which is partially subsidized but the State of Indiana.

I flew out and visited the school a few years ago. They train students in a crew style environment and use Republic flows and callouts, as much as relevant, so they students can transition to the ejets when they hit 1,500 and complete their ATP. They talked about that a bit, so I'm just repeating it here. I recall it was like $65k after the subsidy. And they will be flying jets as soon as they are legal to do so.

FWIW.