Flybye, it's not an easy road regardless. This industry has gone through ups and downs many, many times and it seems it doesn't learn from it's mistakes. Some decide it's not for them, others like me decide to slug it out.

SWAcapt, like many others on here paid his dues too. They may not have been the same way you were, but the road isn't easy no matter which way you go.

I think there are two truths in this industry. The first is that there is no easy road. The second is you better be prepared to do this because you enjoy it, not because you expect to get rich quick.

 

Pilotpip, Very well said. Yes, I have paid my dues. I lived in a doublewide mobile home making 28K as a Deputy Sheriff waiting for the industry to heal in the early 90's. Got hired by AA Feb 94 and laid off 3days later.
Flyby & Skyhigh, I realize there are many that are in extremis right now and don't disagree. My point was very specific about two points in Fly's post. Stating an opinion as fact and trying to figure the problem with the low cost model. Otherwise I feel for you guys and wish you all the best. Were all in the brotherhood of aviation. I count my blessings everyday. Sky, I reread my post and still can't see where I criticised Fly, Just the two listed misstatements.

 

SWAcapt,

No biggie man. We are all friends here. I just thought you were bagging on my friend Flybye.

SKyHigh

 

Obviously, some people luck out on timing, and some don't. Let's not forget that some people research a career move before they make it, and some don't. Some people are dedicated enough and have enough sticktuitiveness to ride out the tough times, and some don't. Im sure SWACapt doesn't own the goose that lays golden eggs...I'm sure he made the necessary sacrifices, networked, and busted his hump to get where he is. Good for him! That means there's a precedence...if he can do it, so can I. While some of you gripe about what you don't have now, or you used to have, or you may never have, I'll be building my resume and trying to get that job you're giving up on. Nobody is going to come looking for you to hand you a job. I'm glad to hear that some of you want out of the industry, because that means less competition for those of us that really want it.

 

Matt,

Keep it up buddy. American Eagle needs more guys like you out there. With that kind of thinking we might just see the day of the 12 year regional FO. Stick to it. Your day will come. You might be in your 50's but hold on to that dream man. Believe and your magical ferry princess will come.

It is comforting to think that our own efforts can effect changes like; the economy, upgrade times, hiring practices and preferences or the success or failure of a company. We can help those things however the reality is that most people luck into those good jobs. Most of those SWA heroes back when they first got hired might have been lamenting that they didn't make it with Eastern. No one can tell the future, and it is difficult to tell who the next rising star will be. Despite what SWA says you could get hired there tomorrow and end up spending the next 20 years as an FO. The hot companies of today usually are not so hot tomorrow.

Keep believing and telling yourself that stuff though hold off the reality that our careers are just blowing in the wind. It makes things much more difficult when you realize that you are placing your career dreams in the hands of a business executive. You could be a hero one day and a zero the next.

SkyHigh

 

Maybe I did not want it enough. I decided to cash out my chips instead of allowing my debt to spiral beyond control, declaring backruptcy and getting divorced a year down the road. Maybe I should have just sucked it up and moved for the third time across the country to accept a job making .50 above minimum and a few more hours a month of multi time. Maybe I should have begged my wife's parents for a loan that I cannot hope to repay to buy some more multi time, or even get that type rating that does me absolutely no good except make my resume look like everyone elses. Better still I could have paid someone to work for them so I get to fly their planes and occassionally wash them. Maybe I should have used my network of pilot friends that are either on long-term furlough, unemployed, or have already left the industry for the same reasons I have. Maybe getting a fourth job (I already had three) to help pay the rent would have been the thing to do during the time I was wasting on sleep. Maybe I also could have stopped reading the newspapers, watching the news, and ignored reality to help me keep a positive frame of mind as the statistics do not apply to me.

Just as I do not judge people for staying in you should not judge me for getting out as I am definitely not alone. I also have a beautiful wife and daughter that I cherish my time with, and I can finally contribute to her upbringing instead of taking from it. Maybe someday this industry will once again turnaround, then again, maybe it wont.

 

Obviously this career and lifestyle choice is not for everyone. Who knows, maybe one day I too will decide that the cons outweigh the pros, and I too will leave the industry. However, I know for a fact that in the off chance that I do decide to turn in my wings, I will not be in an APC forum attempting to dissuade others from pursuing their dreams and goals. If it sucks so much...just leave it behind and walk away...don't talk about it anymore, don't read about anymore, don't write about it anymore, and please don't condescend to those of us who are determined to stick with it. If you hated it so much, why do you still allow it to consume so much of your life? I know you aren't here with the altruistic belief that you can "save" the next generation of pilots from a life of misery...aviation is in your blood, and you can't get it out. Some of you have realized that this life is not for you, and you made a clean break, and it has worked out well for you. That's great...different strokes for different folks. I am certainly not going to look down my nose at you for doing so.

Just because the industry is all doom and gloom now doesn't mean it will always be that way. People will always want to go from point A to point B, and at least in my lifetime, their will always be a demand for pilots to move them. Why can't it be me? It may not be as good of a gig as it was in the "good ol' days", but then again, I'm still having a blast doing it, and I'm getting paid to do something that I love. Call me stubborn, but I'm all in. If it doesn't work out in the long run...so be it. Thank you, but I'd rather find out for myself.

 

Matt,

No one wants to stop you. Our aim is not to dull your enthusiasm. However, one of the biggest crimes in this industry is that those who do quit usually disappear, as you mentioned, and never pass on their experiences to others. I believe that for every one pilot who is gainfully employed at a major or other good position there are 20 more who had to give up somewhere along the way. The only voice left is that of Flying Magazine and from the deluded cheer staff. You have been briefed. You are aware of the risks and sacrifices ahead. Go forth and take your stab at the world. As for future generations hopefully there will be more like Flybye to inform others of the hazards. Not only would it save many fortunes and avoid thousands of wasted lives but it could save our very profession as well.

SkyHigh

 

I am not trying to dull anyone's enthusiasm. If I did not care greatly about this career field I would not be here today. In fact, there is nothing I love to do more. I just decided that this love was ruining every other aspect of my life and that is too high a price. The fact is this was the hardest descision I ever made because I also believed that people would still want to travel, and they will always need people to move them.

I would agree with Skyhigh that nobody wants to give you a straight answer about the enormous challenges of this career for fear of curbing your enthusiasm. Like I said before for some it works out great and they achieve the career of their dreams but for far more it is struggle to survive. It is kind of like buying scratch off tickets. A few win the jackpot but for most you win just enough to entice you to spend more.

 

flybye,

I see where you're coming from and what was mentioned above is true; everyone's situation is different. Aviation is a very selfish career path as it wants all of your money and time during college, and some of your money and a great majority of time afterwards. Your situation is much different as you have a wife and kid and pursuing an aviation career at the same time. It might not be the best thing to do to have a career where you're never home, especially when you have a really young kid. I have a hard enough time paying bills, going to school and work as it is so I can't even relate to the stress that must have been placed on you. I've been in a really bad financial situation as well and I know what it's like to lose sleep because of it.

I was a web designer/developer as well (still am, sort of, to a lesser degree) but after getting laid off and having carpal tunnel syndrome in my right hand before the age of twenty and staring at things like < ? $error = 0; } all day every day I started looking at my other options.

Before people jump on me for having aviation as one of my other options, it's not my only one. One of which is a startup web design firm which I'm launching next January. If anything, the decline in the industry should persuade more people to exercise their other options financially.

All that said, I wish you the best of luck in whatever path you choose.