bsh932

Can a CFI give training towards an instrument rating if a student is part141? Or does the instuctor have to be a CFII? I have a checkride for my CFII scheduled in a week, but I have a student who just received his private pilot rating and wants to begin on his instrument training before my checkride.

rickair7777

In order to give instrument training which is logged as instrument dual received and counts toward the required dual training, you must have a CFII. There is only one exception: A CFI may provide the instrument instruction required for a PPL.

However...there is nothing that says you cannot GIVE all the instruction you want or act as safety pilot. It simply cannot be LOGGED as dual instrument received. Since you need more "instrument time" than dual instrument time for the rating it probably would not hurt to start early (logged as SP). Legally he could go up a private pilot SP and shoot practice approaches today...so why not go with you?

Many programs start with sim...you may not want to do that, since it cannot be logged at all without a CFI. While the training might still be useful, the student may not want to spend the $$$ and not log it also.

Also you mentioned 141...you would need to talk to your CP, but I'm fairly certain that 141 will require a CFII to do any training that counts towards a 141 program... they usually start with SIM anyway. If you want to start early it probably needs to be part 91.

timnunes

I have always been under the impression that you only have to have your CFII for a certain number of hours. The rest can be done by any CFI.

I don't have time to look it up in the regs right now, so I might be wrong.

rickair7777

A certain number of hours must be dual received (by a CFII). The remainder can be SP, dual recieved, or a combination of the two. A CFI (non CFII) who is giving "instrument instruction" is legally only a SP and must log it as SP, not instruction of any sort (unless it is the instrument instruction for a PPL).

the King

I believe that under 141, you must have 15 hours of dual instruction. You must have 35 total training hours. In the case of the IR, all training time is either simulated or actual instrument, or FTD/sim. So you could do 20 hours of safety pilot. In practice, most 141 schools do the entire 35 hours as dual instruction because it takes that much for students to be ready. Up to 40% can be done in an FTD. If you have access to one, that might be the place to start.

sigep_nm

Just a stipulation of wording rick but technically that training being given for a PPL if administered by a CFI is considered 'Flight by reference to instruments" which is not instrument training. Meaning that it can not be used to meet the requirments of an Instrument rating, which requires instrument training. Like a said, a mere wording change, but other than that you were correct.

Pilotpip

CFI's can give as much instrument training as they wish. The student has to log at least 15 hours with a CFII.

sigep_nm

Wrong, they can only give 'flight by reference to instruments' which is not instrument training.

underdog969

i know the reg in part 61. i don't know if its different from part 141 but here it is. its 61.65(d)

"(2) A total of 40 hours of actual or simulated instrument time on the areas of operation of this section to include-
(i) At least 15 hours of instrument flight training from an authorized instructor in the aircraft category for which the instrument rating is sought;
(ii) at least 3 hours of instrument training that is appropriate to the instrument rating sought from an authorized instructor in preperation for the practical test within 60 days preceding the date of the test."

so what i get from this is that only 15 hours has to be from a CFII. I don't think that is a good idea being that the CFI might not be as good as teaching instruments as the CFII but it can be done. i know of a flight school that dosen't have alot of CFII's and the students stay with their original CFI's untill they are almost done and the CFII gets the last 15 hours and gets them ready. i think its pretty shady but i think it can be done legally.

rickair7777

Whatever you call it, an IRA applicant only needs 15 hours of instrument instruction from a CFII. The remaining 25 hours can be with a CFII (and often is) but it can also be simulated instrument with a safety pilot or a CFI-airplane.

I had one student who was on a budget, so I trained him up to where he knew what all the tasks were, and then he went flying with another PP buddy as SP until he felt that he had it all under control. He came back to me for the 3 hours in 60 days, got signed off, and passed. Most students need more CFII time than this guy however.