I go with "Quick and expensive" = Seniority.

When you are in class the other guy that went through ATP or the others, JetU, will be sitting in the right seat gaining all the experience he/she needs and accruing seniority, even if it's an ATR or any turbine. When hiring ever starts, who will be upgrading or picking their base sooner, if that person wants it that bad, they will have the 1000 turbine PIC before you and hopefully it pays off for them, HOPEFULLY. This job is crazy, try being furloughed.
being positioned for opportunity is more valuable than, "Oh hiring is good now, where do I stand? do I have jet experience or turbine time , etc.?" then try getting hired with everyone else that waited. you all will have paid the same amount eventually.
Realistically, how much have all of you paid for everything you have done for aviation, believe me you will pay the same or more than $55,000 by the time you get an airline job, very few don't.
good luck!

 

I have yet to see any reasonable evidence or reasonable quantification showing that gains in seniority surpass losses accrued by accepting the extra $45k in loans needed to obtain it. Not saying it isn't possible... just that no one ever makes a believable case for it. And if you make such a case please include the interest on the loan at say 5% apr, and a period of at least 5 years.

 

I spent $42,000 but that included a 4 year degree and ratings through MEI.

 

A lot of people make the "seniority argument". I don't buy it. Here is an example: When I was a CFI (2003-2006) a lot of my friends took the first thing that came along just because hiring had restarted after the mess that was 2001-02 and left before I did for places like Skyway, Great Lakes, Big Sky, Mesaba. Now 2 of those places are no more, a few guys got furloughed from Mesaba and with a couple of exceptions those guys jumped ship to other regionals. There are several guys here at my current company (XJET) that hit the 121 world 6 months before I did just to make a lateral move a year later and are now 6 months-1 year behind me on the seniority list where I am now. So no, the seniority argument doesn't hold any water unless you can guarantee that you will only move upwards and now sideways in the industry.

 

No one will ever know this, it is relative also, who knows, ask a guy on furlough from an airline and ask him, should have done the ATP class? no way to determine what's right, but the value is to the person making the choice, If he is a Captain when you are going through new hire class somewhere, maybe you can throw around the argument.
If you and I went to a market on the same day at different times and each bought a clay pot or rug, or whatever. You paid $5, I paid $6, we don't know each other and don't know what we each paid, but you feel you received a good deal, and I feel i had a good deal, we both got the rug and are happy about it. It is your value of the object, whether yours falls apart in a month and mine doesn't, who knows at the moment you purchased it.

I still go for getting the training and get a job as soon as possible and endure the pain now and hope for the best.
If you didn't pay the price and get sometime later, then good for you, I will have been there and learned the airline and prepared for the next upgrade.

again good luck!!

 

Exactly.
fair and reasonable examples, the point being, who knows.
If there wasn't a furlough or chap7, then they were on top, and it paid off, no one knows. But saying they went "JUST because hiring had started" is pointless to say, why wouldn't they try to get hired?

 

I sincerely would welcome some well made arguments with numbers showing that running off to regionals as fast as possible is a sound idea. I'd be at one now if people wre making good arguments for it.

 

Your argument is flawed because not everyone takes the same path to a major. Case in point, when I was a lowly Beech FO there was a Beech CA who was two years senior to me who is now six months my junior at UPS...A+B doesn't always =C in this biz. And not everyone needs to go to a regional to end up at FDX, UPS, SWA, etc.

 

Care to elaborate. Believe you me, I'm like Horton...all ears. Serious talk. No BS.

One question Slice, does UPSCO have like a mentoring program of sorts?


atp

 

Don't know about a mentoring program, but DE727 may have a clue. APC is a good mentoring program if you up and comers would listen to those of us that have been around the block.

There were a few in my class who had corporate only or mil only backgrounds, one flew freight in turboprops. I know of guys at FDX and SWA who were the same. By far, most fly at another airline first but it's not the only way to go.