Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-17-2007, 06:57 AM   #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
atpwannabe's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Dispatcher
Posts: 2,201
Default Starting to reconsider.........

With the regionals and some Part 135 operators starting to lower their mins, I am seriously reviewing my options. Mainly, that of anticipating on attending ATP in JAX.

First an foremost, there is the financial savings. That's a given. Actually, it's a savings of roughly $30-$40K. I proposed to my Dad that we could just transfer those savings into my checking acct. He just smiled.

I would assume that most pilots that are flying for under 121 or 135 received their training @ a local FBO. What are the trade offs, if any, by deciding not to go to ATP and completing my training at an FBO. Is a rose a rose so to speak? Do the regionals REALLY look at training from FBO's to be "second class" as oppose to attending a flight academy.

Listen guys, I know that subject is like beating a dead horse, but give me some solid feedback so that I will have all available information to make a more informed decision when the time comes.

Thanks in advance. Got alot of running around to do today. Will get back to your responses later.


atp
atpwannabe is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 07:27 AM   #2  
Super Moderator
 
usmc-sgt's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,452
Default

ill field this one

ATP,
thank you for asking your question as I am glad to help someone out at a crossroads perse. Your question is one that rolls alot of eyes because as you have said it is definately beating a dead horse to the tenth power but I can help you.

NO ONE CARES WHERE YOU GOT YOUR RATINGS!! I can not possibly stress this enough. In my new hire class as well as the interview it was a complete mix between FBOs and big name schools such as DCA, ATP, ARI-BEN and others I may have forgotten. The only thing that typically separates an FBO student and someone who went to an academy type atmosphere is around an extra 20 thousand in debt.

It is not a school that makes a good pilot, it is something that is determined by you and you alone. How hard do you work at it, how hard do you study, are you always striving for perfection, do you consider the PTS standards to be a joke and strive no never let yourself accept them as your high standard. These are things that make a pilot, not 100 hours of safety pilot in a seminole, not 50 hours of glass time, not an RJ course.

One thing that I have always found appealing about ATP is the 90 day program in which you are in and out in 90 days..if for some reason you really want to be in and out in 90 days (not sure what the hurry is) you can easily do this at an FBO it just requires some special consideration.

so here it is, my reccomendation

Find an FBO near you that is an easy commute and go and talk to them, you are looking for a few things. You are interviewing them and not the other way around.
1. What is the fleet size? 1 single engine, 1 complex trainer and 1 twin is fine providing their maintenance is great and they are not very busy but typically you will want more than that to keep up your continuity because with fewer planes you will see that they will always go down for annuals the day before your checkride.
2. What does their fleet look like? Im not talking about new paint or avionics here, just simply an overall feel for how upkept the planes are. Are the planes well cared for, clean, and give you an overall warm feeling.
3. What does there maintenance department look like (if they have one) It does not have to be top notch or even in house but you will find that inhouse maintenance can limit some MX delays.
4. Does the school give you an overall good feeling? It should because you will be spending nearly 300 hours (not flight hours) there.
5. Ask to interview some of their current students both private and those further along. A good school will have no problem with this and it will give you the inside scoop on how things really operate.

Ok so now you found a school, you are not done yet. Now you need to find a CFI and sit them down and specifically tell them everything you are looking to do and the timeline you are looking to do it. Scheduling can be a pain at some schools at first but after a few weeks your schedule will get rolling and you will have enough scheduled in advance to keep going. Tell the CFI exactly which days/nights/times and frequencies that you are looking to fly and make sure that it works with them and reach a mutual agreement. If after a few flights the CFI is just not working for you feel free to change. You came to a verbal agreement and if they do not meet their end of the bargain or you two do not mesh then it may be time to move on to a new CFI. Also ask your CFI if they plan on moving on during your training. It is very possible that your CFI may move on in the middle of your training, this is not necessarily a bad thing if their instruction is top notch and they can get you through a few ratings and build a good foundation however, if they are leaving in a month than that may be a no go.

So if you MUST get multi time here is what I would reccomend. Do your private, and then instrument and then do your initial commercial in the twin. I did not find that getting my initial commercial in a twin was that difficult and it adds maybe an additional 10 hours to figure out the twin but that is 10 hours of multi you wont need to "buy" somewhere else. Also get your MEI and plan on using it because that is where the real useful multi time will come from, as an instructor.

After this you can plan on finishing with around 280 hours +- a few if you do it part 61 and probably 50 multi which is a good foundation towards your future goals.

Now, what do you do with all the money you saved? Put it towards a degree and not embry riddle. Embry riddle and ND are great schools but I would just reccomend a local community college where you can get a BA in something other than aviation and pay nearly 100 dollars less per credit hour. Did I mention that no one really cares where you got your degree or what it is in?

So that is it, the plan of attack. I did something very similiar to what I just told you and then instructed for around 700 dual given or so before moving on and i dont regret a thing.
usmc-sgt is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 09:57 AM   #3  
Gets Weekends Off
 
TXTECHKA's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 382
Default

same here, I got my ratings at a local fbo while attending a big university. I did not get an aviation degree. It is unnecessary and gives you nothing to fall back on. I will always recommend the fbo route. I built up a bunch of time while instructing there and was able to go straight to my choice of regionals as soon as I graduated. In my opinion, your experience will be much more diverse with this type of school if for no other reason, you will end up flying a lot of different types of aircraft at an fbo while a factory you will only fly a couple of different types. You can do your ratings just as fast if you want to at an fbo but I would recommend going to college to if you haven't already. A decent degree is worth alot more than a pilot's license, plus its more fun than you'll know what to do with.
TXTECHKA is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 10:36 AM   #4  
On Reserve
 
PS362's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXTECHKA View Post
same here, I got my ratings at a local fbo while attending a big university. I did not get an aviation degree. It is unnecessary and gives you nothing to fall back on. I will always recommend the fbo route. I built up a bunch of time while instructing there and was able to go straight to my choice of regionals as soon as I graduated. In my opinion, your experience will be much more diverse with this type of school if for no other reason, you will end up flying a lot of different types of aircraft at an fbo while a factory you will only fly a couple of different types. You can do your ratings just as fast if you want to at an fbo but I would recommend going to college to if you haven't already. A decent degree is worth alot more than a pilot's license, plus its more fun than you'll know what to do with.
Well stated. I agree. A degree in another field is recommended. Kudo's on the FBO flight schools. The hiring environment at this time is putting no weight on aviation degrees. They will look at past academic achievements to determine if you have proven yourself to be trainable. I took my time and have zero aviation training debt and believe me when you start with a regional you need zero debt.
My two cents.
Moose
PS362 is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:10 PM   #5  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
atpwannabe's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Dispatcher
Posts: 2,201
Default

usmc-sgt, TXTECHKA & PS362:

This is exactly the info I was looking for.

Thanks for spelling things out for me. I know exactly what questions to ask and what to expect. If I do decide to go the FBO route, I would want my training to mirror somewhat that of ATP's. If I completed the training in 6 months as oppose to 5, then that's ok.

I don't have the luxury of time perse. I'm 45 yrs old and btw, a graduate of ERAU...Fall Class of '87/Daytona Beach campus.

Thanks guys. I'll keep you posted.


atp
atpwannabe is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 02:28 PM   #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Slice's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,227
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
usmc-sgt, TXTECHKA & PS362:

This is exactly the info I was looking for.

Thanks for spelling things out for me. I know exactly what questions to ask and what to expect. If I do decide to go the FBO route, I would want my training to mirror somewhat that of ATP's. If I completed the training in 6 months as oppose to 5, then that's ok.

I don't have the luxury of time perse. I'm 45 yrs old and btw, a graduate of ERAU...Fall Class of '87/Daytona Beach campus.

Thanks guys. I'll keep you posted.


atp
Herb can get you done in <6 months easily. I did IFR thru MEI there in less than 3 months back in the day(worked my ass off to get it done so that quickly). Quality instruction at reasonable prices.
www.prairieairservice.com
Slice is offline  
Old 11-17-2007, 05:18 PM   #7  
Line Holder
 
AmazonChitlin's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: PA18
Posts: 69
Default

I don't think that there is anything special about ATP and the time considerations...If you go to an FBO where you can fly 10 hours a week, or more, you'll get through in no time. Think about this:

Private:
          Instrument:
                  Commercial:
                          Multi engine land - commercial add-on with Instrument
                                  CFI:
                                          CFII:
                                                  MEI:

                                                          That's really not that bad, and I'd be afraid of flying more simply because I feel it'd really start to interfere with you retaining what you learned.

                                                          All that said, you'll also save about $20,000 by going to an FBO rather than ATP, which is always good!

                                                          Last edited by AmazonChitlin; 11-17-2007 at 05:23 PM.
                                                          AmazonChitlin is offline  
                                                          Old 11-18-2007, 08:10 AM   #8  
                                                          Gets Weekends Off
                                                           
                                                          TXTECHKA's Avatar
                                                           
                                                          Joined APC: Mar 2007
                                                          Posts: 382
                                                          Default

                                                          for the multi and mei go to arlington airport in dallas texas and go to a place called multi engine training. the airplanes are real junk but you can do your multi or your mei in 3 days and it's 1500 bucks, examiner included. You get a discount if you bring a buddy.
                                                          TXTECHKA is offline  
                                                          Old 11-18-2007, 06:41 PM   #9  
                                                          Gets Weekends Off
                                                          Thread Starter
                                                           
                                                          atpwannabe's Avatar
                                                           
                                                          Joined APC: Jan 2006
                                                          Position: Dispatcher
                                                          Posts: 2,201
                                                          Default

                                                          Thanks guys each and every one of you for the input.

                                                          One of the reasons I like ATP is the XC flight experience you get in the ACPP. Not only do you increase TT, but ME time, get CRM per se, and the whole experience of being on a 6 or 7 day trip. I gather it's a rush.

                                                          On the other hand, I did my discovery flight a Aeronautix Flight Training @ the North County Airport in Palm Beach Gardens, FL.

                                                          My instructor who is not only the manager & Chief Flight Instructor, he's a retired Delta Captain. When he retired, he was driving the 767 & the 777. Jim's a great guy. He tells it like it is and shoots straight from the hip. And by him being a former Delta Captain could work to my advantage later on. We'll just have to see.


                                                          atp
                                                          atpwannabe is offline  
                                                          Old 11-18-2007, 06:46 PM   #10  
                                                          Gets Weekends Off
                                                           
                                                          da_flyn_hawyn's Avatar
                                                           
                                                          Joined APC: Mar 2007
                                                          Posts: 144
                                                          Default

                                                          Are you really a student pilot? I think that you work for ATP, and that your trying to recruit people. Am I right?
                                                          da_flyn_hawyn is offline  
                                                           
                                                           
                                                           

                                                           
                                                          Post Reply
                                                           



                                                          Thread Tools Search this Thread
                                                          Search this Thread:

                                                          Advanced Search


                                                          Related Topics
                                                          Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
                                                          Starting age somebody please HELP!! beckyannmd Flight Schools and Training 15 12-26-2007 06:31 PM
                                                          Starting Pay? WMUPilot Corporate 11 09-08-2007 07:51 AM
                                                          Just starting out - need advice jdoty Flight Schools and Training 7 02-07-2006 10:43 PM
                                                          AA starting up DAL flights in Mar. 06 RockBottom Major 6 12-17-2005 04:13 AM
                                                          EOS starting proving runs Gordon C Major 0 08-09-2005 09:20 PM


                                                          All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:45 AM.