Yes I am aware some (many) schools teach it that way. But the FAA says use airspeed, which is more ideal for teaching purposes. Using ground speed in the equation is theoretically correct but it fosters confusion about how to do the maneuver. This thread is proof of that. Students get confused about how to calculate pivotal height. It is a one-tme calculation based on airspeed OR ground speed in no-wind conditions. You are looking at an airspeed dial in the airplane so it is best to use that. Ground speed is the cause of variation in pivotal altitude, so it certainly works to use it to compute the no-wind pivotal altitude. I am trying to make the distinction between the theory of pivotal altitude and the application of the pivotal altitude formula for pilots but it looks like I am missing my audience a bit. Refer to FAA 8083 Airplane Flying Handbook if you need to. It has the info needed to do the maneuver properly, even though the theory is mostly left out.

 

Very well said.......always cracks me up when nerds question something that is pretty obvious that you know. I think everyone here understood what you meant except the monday morning quarterback questioning your knowledge without knowing you.

 

i dont teach at western. i got the hell out of there. but i suggest going with Tennis for your ride if your worried about it. I went with him for all 4 of my ratings. Extremely laid back and makes it very comfortable. His orals consist of whats gonna happen when you fly and any miscellaneous stuff that you and him find interesting. My multi commercial ride consisted of a 3 hour oral. 2 hours and 45 mins was talking about different types of aircraft insurances haha

 

indeed. it irritates the crap out of me. i didnt ask for you to critique me, i asked for a little help. go bother someone else with that garbage.....

 

Thats Tennis. Do you know if he does Seneca rides? I did my inst with him, and we spent 1.5 hrs on IACRA, .2 on his history, and .3 actually talking about the 3 questions he asked me.

 

Cubdriver: While airspeed is recommended, I would argue that GS is as readily available to most pilots as IAS is. Yeah, it isn't technically correct, but if you have the table already done (the best way I've ever seen, and a good exercise for Commercial applicants) GS is easily determined in the GPS/glass cockpit-equipped aircraft many students train in.

OP: Here's a quote straight from the Airplane Flying Handbook. "A rule of thumb for estimating pivotal altitude in calm wind is to square the true airspeed and divide by 15 for miles per hour (m.p.h.) or 11.3 for knots." Pivotal altitude is a visual trick. You "appear" to rotate about the pylon. The math explains why it looks like that, not the other way around. Old rule of thumb: "5 minutes prep on the ground equals half an hour in the air." Make the students do the work on the ground so the maneuver is (almost) idiot-proof.

 

Yes, Tennis just got approved to do rides in the Seneca. I know a few people that have gone with him. Personally, I did both my private and instrument with him. He never even looked at my planning on the instrument ride.

 

What mathmatical function is "^" ?

 

= groundspeed squared

 

Agreed, and thanks for weighing in. The nice thing about the flight training forum here is a person can hear a variety of viewpoints on a subject from a variety of experience levels. One of us may know something about theory and another may have more practical experience. As long as you are willing to learn you can benefit from hearing what other people have to say, give your sincere view on something, and compare notes. No one is "bad" for having a particular level of understanding about a topic as long as they care about the views of others and are willing to consider other views. I pretty much live for airplanes and flying so I like to hear how others perform and teach flight maneuvers, how they understand them, and how they feel about flight topics in general.