200SR20

Sounds likes there trying to get you coming in with the same groundspeed which makes no since. The benefit of a headwind is less ground roll. The only thing I can think that makes any kind of since is if you have a nice 10 headwind on final caused by a storm in the vicinity, I mean hey I even come in a little hotter on an approach if there any kind of weather activity, but if its clear blue and a million screw that. Good Luck

floridaCFII

Sounds like a great way to end up in the trees off the end of a short runway. I would not teach this... if my employer wanted me to, I would either try to reason with them or find a different employer.

The students you sign off are on your cert, and the FAA isn't going to like the defense of "the school told me to teach that" when one of them crashes on landing.

robthree

As everyone else has said, it sounds weird.

The FAA Airplane Flying Handbook calls for 1.3 Vso or the manufacturer's recommended speed to be used on final. I see no mention of adjusting airspeed in the face of various headwinds (power, yes).

Perhaps the most politic way to approach the situations would be to say , "Hey I was re-reading the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook and saw in chapter 8 where they discuss landings, and it says blah, blah, blah, but you want me to teach blah, blah, blah, so I must have misunderstood something. Can you help me understand how your way is actually not in conflict with the Fed way, cause I really want to do it right."

FlyinFoSheezy

Never heard of this technique in over 15 years of flying. With small singles there are many "rules of thumb" but students need structure and guidlines that the FAA examiner will present on a checkride. Rules of thumb may not work everytime.

One instance when you would use more power is in x/c headwinds in order to increase groundspeed. I suggest you teach the basics to students and not rules of thumb. That can come later.

Lots of Rules-of-Thumb here: The Hangar

twebb

Okay, so I now work for this company and here is what the owner said. You enter your base when you're 45 degrees from the end of the runway, then by the time you turn final you need to be at 500' AGL, then you add your headwind to your IAS so you always have the same gs, and you will always have the same rate of decent...once you get close to the runway you start bleeding out your airspeed to your landing speed. This method keeps your traffic pattern the same in 0 winds or 40 knot winds.
Now...if you add 40 knots to your IAS and you're over your flap speed, looks like you're not adding in flaps until you bleed out airspeed (maybe okay for small airplanes, but not larger ones). If you actually need to fly at the same speed as all the other airplanes...this method won't work. If you have an engine failure, this method won't work. Now he said airline pilots use this method, any airline pilots out there use this method? I don't. Now you might be adding your headwind just to get home faster, that doesn't count. This is also used on an ILS to keep the same rate of decent.

TheReelDeel33

I think this guy is trying to invent a new method just for the sake of hopefully one day getting credited with inventing a new method. It sounds confusing.

I'm a student right now who's working on lesson 10 @ my school which is basically our first solo ride in closed traffic. So I know first hand that the only thing students will worry about is not crashing. Trying to come down without bouncing the nose to hard and staying somewhat on the center line is top priority. Having to do math with the runway closing in on you is just one more thing students would have to worry about that could potentially screw them up.

Gchamp3

The manufacturer trumps all. What do the normal procedures for the aircraft your flying say?

Rama

Yes airline pilots use a method adding an increase above ref for wind and gusts, however this is only for flying an airliner.
Fly a small plane using manufacturers numbers as previously stated.

LivingInMEM

A method is called "reference ground speed" and it calls for you to add (not subtract) knots to your airspeed so that your groundspeed on final is close to "final no-wind groundspeed (you can use airspeed, close enough) minus the headwind component of the winds tower is calling." For example, if you are flying 90 knots on final and ground is calling 10 knots down the runway - you would fly whatever airspeed gives you 90-10=80 knots groundspeed. Of course, you need groundspeed readout for this to be effective.

The reason for this procedure is that it is a good defense against windshear. Suppose you were flying that above example and your groundspeed was 40 knots at 800'. Given that example, you would expect that between 800' and touchdown, you would lose 40 knots of headwind. That loss could be gradual (in which case you would gradually reduce airspeed to maintain that 80 knot reference groundspeed) or it could be sudden. Given the knowledge that you were going to have a sudden loss of airspeed, would you rather be on speed or fast?

Inherently, single engine small aircraft are able to quicly recover from such a loss and they usually don't fly in heavy windshear conditions. On the other hand, big jets and biz jets do fly in these conditions and they are more susceptible to loss of airspeed situations (high sink rate due to airspeed reduction with swept wings, long jet spool up time, etc.); therefore this is a valid technique for those aircraft.

Either way, since you are flying your reference groundspeed which accounts for tower-reported winds and you are reducing airspeed as required - by the time you cross the threshold you are in those 10 knot winds that tower was reporting and your airspeed would be equal to whatever your manufacturers rec. speed was.

atlmsl

What's used at my airline is adding the GUST factor to your Vref, not just a headwind. If the headwind is a steady 10 kts we don't add 10 kts to our Vref. If it's 10 gusting 15 we will add 5. If you add a steady headwind at your Vref you are losing the advantage of a headwind.

Does this mean we should also add the headwind to our rotation speed to avoid a "sudden loss of airspeed on takeoff?"