New Landing Method
09-19-2008, 04:47 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Sounds like an instructor heard a technique that every airline I've worked for uses on jets: add 5 knots to Vref for all approaches than 1/2 the headwind and all of the gust component not to exceed a 20 knot increase to Vref. I don't know if its necessary in a single engine trainer. This is important in a jet due to our longer spool up times at slower rpms and the fact that you are flying a wing with no artificial lift or thrust created by prop wash. You also have less mass to accelerate if you get slow, ie. its a lot easier to accelerate a 1500 pound trainer than a 300,000 pound jet at 100 feet.
09-19-2008, 09:34 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 2,934
Lets not forget the fact that the airliner has things like antiskid, lift dump spoilers, reversers, etc.
Everybody else has hit the reasons this technique is bad. I'll just add that if you can't plan a descent, you shouldn't be flying. It's not that hard.
Everybody else has hit the reasons this technique is bad. I'll just add that if you can't plan a descent, you shouldn't be flying. It's not that hard.
09-19-2008, 11:59 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 88B - Loud Pipes Save Lives
Posts: 1,597
Originally Posted by twebb
Okay, so I now work for this company and here is what the owner said. You enter your base when you're 45 degrees from the end of the runway, then by the time you turn final you need to be at 500' AGL, then you add your headwind to your IAS so you always have the same gs, and you will always have the same rate of decent...once you get close to the runway you start bleeding out your airspeed to your landing speed. This method keeps your traffic pattern the same in 0 winds or 40 knot winds.
Now...if you add 40 knots to your IAS and you're over your flap speed, looks like you're not adding in flaps until you bleed out airspeed (maybe okay for small airplanes, but not larger ones). If you actually need to fly at the same speed as all the other airplanes...this method won't work. If you have an engine failure, this method won't work. Now he said airline pilots use this method, any airline pilots out there use this method? I don't. Now you might be adding your headwind just to get home faster, that doesn't count. This is also used on an ILS to keep the same rate of decent.
Now...if you add 40 knots to your IAS and you're over your flap speed, looks like you're not adding in flaps until you bleed out airspeed (maybe okay for small airplanes, but not larger ones). If you actually need to fly at the same speed as all the other airplanes...this method won't work. If you have an engine failure, this method won't work. Now he said airline pilots use this method, any airline pilots out there use this method? I don't. Now you might be adding your headwind just to get home faster, that doesn't count. This is also used on an ILS to keep the same rate of decent.
09-19-2008, 07:50 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: ATP, CFII, MEI, Chief Flight Instructor, Charter Captain CE402, CE421, BE58
Posts: 80
This guy IS jacked....I've never really heard of this before and think it's a bunch of hooey. He wants the same patterns?.....What the heck are ground ref manuevers for? This may work for the heavies, but I don't see it very practical for small airplanes and fresh new students. Blah blah blah blah blah..................................
papa t
papa t
09-20-2008, 06:17 AM
#35
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Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Let's use the 145 for example (only cause thats all i know).
Can anyone provide evidence of why Embraer procedures dictate that we add knots to our approach speed? I don't think that this would be "to make the pattern look pretty"
Maybe this instructor is confused as to the reason why the approach speed would be higher in a air transport scenario.
Can anyone provide evidence of why Embraer procedures dictate that we add knots to our approach speed? I don't think that this would be "to make the pattern look pretty"
Maybe this instructor is confused as to the reason why the approach speed would be higher in a air transport scenario.
09-21-2008, 06:40 AM
#36
Portuguese Troubleshooter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Burrito Bomber
Posts: 370
Originally Posted by papatango269
What the heck are ground ref manuevers for?
. Like PilotPip said, if you can't plan/adjust descents in various conditions, you have no business flying a plane. Besides, what is the point of having a constant descent rate if you are going to sacrifice a constant approach speed.
On a side note I would like to say thanks for starting a thread that lets us instructor types show how much more we know than someone
