boeingt7

Does anyone know if the FAA can revoke a CFI's license because his/her student (who already has their private) messes up? I'm asking because I came across this thread from last year and it came up...(2nd page of thread, fourth one down) http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pa...iami-fl-2.html anyone know if this is possible? I thought once a student passes his checkride with the FAA examiner, their CFI is off the hook as to anything stupid the former student might do.

Pilotpip

There's a reason you're supposed to keep a record of your endorsements (and the 8710s you sign) for two years. Every time you put your Herbie Hancock in somebody else's logbook your putting your ratings on the line. Think about that...

And this is the reason I was so much harder on my students than many instructors I worked with.

resetjet

I did a BFR for a student who subsequently busted a TFR. Let's just say the FSDO was not happy. Luckily for me I had printed out a list of topics to cover as part of the ground portion as per the current FAA requirements. The student and I went over all of these topics and BOTH signed off saying we had done so. The FSDO was all over my a$$ until I faxed them a copy. I know there are plenty of CFI's out there who think once a student has a ticket all responsibility is passed on. This is not the case and they WILL make you take a ride or pursue certificate action if they deem it necessary. KEEP YOUR RECORDS!!!!

choxy

Definately bust the student's chops in training just like you did. Like Pip, I drilled students, and It looks like you did a superb job of instructing and recordkeeping and that saved you. Did you have to go and talk to anyone on the FED side in person? Kinda random but I also heard that even is you are ramp checked I heard that if they ask to see your stuff, don't even hand it over, just hold it up, cus the feds will take any excuse to yank somebody's stuff-not saying its true, but something ive heard.

rickair7777

There's a difference...

With a BFR or IPC, you the CFI are the last person to touch the student...if they screw up, the feds will likely have questions.

With any other certificate or rating, the examiner, not the CFI, has the final check and will bear the brunt of the responsibility. As long as the training you gave pre-8710 was complete and fully documemented, you should be OK. For this reason I log the required training verbatim, right out of the FARs. Not for every lesson, but near the end during checkride prep...that way some lawyer can't twist the meaning. There was a famous case where the instructor logged "stalls"...the ambulance chaser convinced a jury that the instructor taught the student to stall, but never taught him to recover!

The most dangerous financial move a CFI can make is to give an IPC...IFR operations are statistically highly lethal to private pilots and if you were the last guy to touch him, you're probably on the hook regardless of what you documented. Death or serious injury means somebody HAS to be to blame.

Pilotpip

Rickair,

To counter you, even with that examiner on the hook, ultimately they're going to come after the CFI. I have a friend who had a former student along with 3 pax die in a 182 that was estimated to be about 400 pounds over max gross after three hours of flying. This student would do what was required when testing, but had a number of hazardous attitudes. The flight school pushed for the student to be signed off trying to get rid of him. Friend signed him off, and wrote a letter to the FSDO and flight school stating that he was capable, but had a disregard for safety when not being watched. Three weeks later he jumped in a 182 with his wife and another couple, flew to a local favorite for dinner, and back in MVFR. After the crash, the first thing the FSDO did was come after my friend. Had the friend not addressed the issues (the letter is in the NTSB report) they would have had their CFI yanked.

You're still on the hook regardless of that signoff. Use caution.

the King

709 rides. I had some coworkers who did them after students bent serious metal (I'm talking gear up landings). I have heard the stories and was careful of who I signed off. There were some people I just didn't want my name associated with.

USMCFLYR

So is there some time limit on this action? I mean if you gave a guy the PPL training and then 6 months, 1 year, 2 years later, etc...... someone makes a mistake what happens then?

USMCFLYR

rickair7777

They can't yank your CFI because a former student screwed up, even if people die...they would have to prove within reason that your training or lack thereof caused the problem. Sloppy documentation can give them the ammo they need though...

In this case the cfi incriminated himself...if he felt strongly enough to write a letter, he probably should not have signed the guy off. I'd hate for a plantif's attorney to get hold of something like THAT.

Moonwolf

You have to keep a record of endorsements for THREE years.
- 61.189 Flight instructor records.

(a) A flight instructor must sign the logbook of each person to whom
that instructor has given flight training or ground training.
(b) A flight instructor must maintain a record in a logbook or a
separate document that contains the following:
(1) The name of each person whose logbook or student pilot
certificate that instructor has endorsed for solo flight privileges, and
the date of the endorsement; and
(2) The name of each person that instructor has endorsed for a
knowledge test or practical test, and the record shall also indicate the
kind of test, the date, and the results.
(c) Each flight instructor must retain the records required by this
section for at least 3 years.

After the get their PVT, I'm not sure if there is a deadline of when the responsibility is cut...probably not, but if its been a few years I'm sure less of it would fall on too the instructor.