ladesaparecida

Hello all, Another question...

Let's assume that you depart on a XC in VFR - no flight plan, just flight following - everything is nice until the return leg:

A cold front is just passing over your arrival airport and the metar reports BKN006 VCSH - You are instrument rated and your aircraft is too. It's not too bumpy/windy/scary - the clouds are the only problem.

Is there a method by which you can talk to ATC and transition from VFR to IFR whilst in flight? If so can you detail or give me the relevant page in the FAR/AIM.

Thank you

NoyGonnaDoIt

There is. It's generally referred to as a "pop-up" clearance. You won't find a specific reference to it in the FAR, other than by making the correlation leap that it's one of those "as otherwise authorized by ATC" situations referred to in 91.169(a).

As far as the AIM, there may be a reference to it, although I don't know it. (There is a very brief reference to it in the ATC Handbook).

Understand that not every procedure is referenced in the AIM (although this one probably should be). For example, can you find the AIM paragraph that describes the way IFR TEC clearances are done SoCal or even who you should call for departure instructions when departing a Class C primary VFR?

Here is a good article on the "pop-up" you might look at if you are interested: Pop-Up IFR

ladesaparecida

Just what I was looking for - thank you.

ladesaparecida

Used it tonight! Whooo!

Depart - VFR - all is good.
Return - 50% VFR - scud running....call up ATC:

"Request transition from VFR to IFR destination xxx"

response:

"Fly heading xxx, join Victor xxx, Squak xxxx"

Instant IFR!

Thanks for your help!!

Elcapiperu

Really good subject! I wonder if a CFI can take an IFR student on a regular VFR flight and request this "pop up" clearance while VFR just so the student knows how it is done in the real world? Or is this just reserved for pilots who are not able to maintain VFR?

Charley 2

Sure can....happened to me during my ifr training...to get above a low cloud deck so we could dodge some tv towers on the way to another airport to shoot practice approaches. Very good training that day. Also remember that you don't have to be in IMC to file or receive an IFR clearance.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Sure. It's not a weather-dependent or emergency procedure. In fact, I'd avoid thinking of it as an "unable to maintain" procedure - it might lead a pilot to wait too long to ask for it.

It is, though, workload-permitting from an ATC standpoint and I've heard pop-up requesters told, "Unable. Contact Flight Service to file your flight plan. Maintain VFR." "Unable" may be the result of busy airspace such as a Class B at 5 PM. Or it may be the result of the weather being low and ATC having it's hands full - too full for your pop-up.

If anything, you should have better luck getting the pop-up on a nice VFR day when things are quiet for ATC.

ladesaparecida

Last night it was a case of lowering cloud deck - we agreed that if we had to go >2500AGL we would try this trick. Minutes later we saw a black out of ground lights and rightly assumed it was a big at cloud.

So, I called them (Bravo ATC APP) and requested the transition - he responded as though he gets 50 such requests a day and told us what we had to do.

Student really liked the technique - and it's comforting to know that if you're out on a VFR and clouds roll in, you can switch over in a jiffy so long as you have a nice controller.

Worst case would be having to circle in VMC whilst you chat to FSS - which aint so bad either.

I love learning and more importantly putting into use these little tricks or "tools" - increases confidence many many times over!

Safe flying!

aviatorisu

Um...if there's even a question about the weather, why not just file IFR to begin with?? I don't remmeber it really being that hard to call?

rickair7777

Calling up on the radio and getting a pop-up from your present position might not always be an option...

You need to be in radar contact, and at or above the MEA/MOCA for your area in order for the controller to just activate your clearance with vectors on the fly.

If you're going to rely on a pop-up as an escape route you need to know the MEA's, airways, and fixes along your route. Worst case, you need to be prepared to give ATC (or EFAS) a starting fix, route, requested alt, and destination.

Also be advised that they will only accept pop-ups if their workload permits...this could force you to declare an emergency.

If you are flying in mountains, be very careful with this...that canyon you're scud running through is probably below radar and the MEA

The safest thing to do would be to file VFR to IFR well in advance...that way you select the fix at which you go IFR, and ATC will be expecting you.