Loggin passenger time??
01-02-2009 | 03:09 AM
#1
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Loggin passenger time??
Hello,
I'm new here. I work in the medical profession and spend many hours flying as medical crew in fixed wing and rotor wing.
I would like to fly as a hobby.
There was a post that said you could "try to hitch a ride" in the backseat of a training flight. Is this loggable time?? Is that time good for anything.
Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?
A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).
The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?
Thanks ahead of time for responses.
-T
I'm new here. I work in the medical profession and spend many hours flying as medical crew in fixed wing and rotor wing.
I would like to fly as a hobby.
There was a post that said you could "try to hitch a ride" in the backseat of a training flight. Is this loggable time?? Is that time good for anything.
Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?
A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).
The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?
Thanks ahead of time for responses.
-T
01-02-2009 | 04:13 AM
#2
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From: the correct seat
There was a post that said you could "try to hitch a ride" in the backseat of a training flight. Is this loggable time?? Is that time good for anything.
no and no. You can learn a lot from riding backseat, but it doesn't count for anything.
Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?
no
A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).
no you cannot
The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?
yes
Basically, you can't log anything at all unless it's with a certified instructor. In your current position, you may even have the chance to fly the aircraft, but if the pilot is not an instructor, you still can't log it.
no and no. You can learn a lot from riding backseat, but it doesn't count for anything.
Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?
no
A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).
no you cannot
The same company providing the planes is the same one that I would get my license through. Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?
yes
Basically, you can't log anything at all unless it's with a certified instructor. In your current position, you may even have the chance to fly the aircraft, but if the pilot is not an instructor, you still can't log it.
01-02-2009 | 04:40 AM
#3
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I thought so... Too good to be true. I guess if it was a CFI that I knew it would work, but might be scetchy on "company time".
Thanks for all the blatent NO's, though. Seriously, thanks for the reply.
It's good learning time if anything.
Take Care...
Thanks for all the blatent NO's, though. Seriously, thanks for the reply.
It's good learning time if anything.
Take Care...
01-02-2009 | 10:02 AM
#4
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From: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Is the flying 135? or 91? I think if it's 91 and the PIC is a CFI, and willing to sign your logbook, there is no reason to not log the right seat as dual received/training time. How useful a lot of this sort of time is depends on the situation. Having 300 hours of dual received looks weird in your logbook when you solo, but I don't see any reason not to log it if you can. Just have a good explaination for it.
Backseat time is totally unloggable for your situation.
Backseat time is totally unloggable for your situation.
01-02-2009 | 12:26 PM
#5
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From: 135 FO
My answers are different than some of the above... this should get fun 
No (this answer we all agree on). Backseat time is valuable for learning the aircraft and the procedures, but it cannot be logged for anything.
Yes... you can log this, as long as you meet the following conditions:
1. The leg is flown under Part 91
2. The PIC is an MEI or ATP who signs your logbook for Dual instruction.
Indeed... it's good experience even if you can't log PIC.
Yes... see above. The PIC could also be an ATP per FAR 61.167, which states:
Also, I spend half of every trip in front of the instrument panel. Is that loggable for anything? Is this time good for anything?
1. The leg is flown under Part 91
2. The PIC is an MEI or ATP who signs your logbook for Dual instruction.
A pilot once asked me for my log book, but I don't have one. I sure could build some CHEAP multi turbine time (obviously not as PIC).
Also, Does the PIC have to be an instructor for this to count?
(b) An airline transport pilot may instruct--
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, class, and type, as applicable, for which the airline transport pilot is rated and endorse the logbook or other training record of the person to whom training has been given;
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, class, and type, as applicable, for which the airline transport pilot is rated and endorse the logbook or other training record of the person to whom training has been given;
01-02-2009 | 01:32 PM
#6
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From: Left seat
My answers are different than some of the above... this should get fun
No (this answer we all agree on). Backseat time is valuable for learning the aircraft and the procedures, but it cannot be logged for anything.
Yes... you can log this, as long as you meet the following conditions:
1. The leg is flown under Part 91
2. The PIC is an MEI or ATP who signs your logbook for Dual instruction.
Indeed... it's good experience even if you can't log PIC.
Yes... see above. The PIC could also be an ATP per FAR 61.167, which states:
No (this answer we all agree on). Backseat time is valuable for learning the aircraft and the procedures, but it cannot be logged for anything.
Yes... you can log this, as long as you meet the following conditions:
1. The leg is flown under Part 91
2. The PIC is an MEI or ATP who signs your logbook for Dual instruction.
Indeed... it's good experience even if you can't log PIC.
Yes... see above. The PIC could also be an ATP per FAR 61.167, which states:
01-02-2009 | 01:53 PM
#7
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From: the correct seat
(b) An airline transport pilot may instruct--
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, ...
ts39136 is not a pilot, so this is not applicable.
Sorry for being so blunt in the first post, but I had to rush off to work. I think it's great that you're interested in aviation, but the unfortunate thing is there is no feasible (and legal) way to get around the system that's been set up. Believe me, I know. Many many pilots have tried, but everybody ends up taking one of the "traditional" routes in one way or another.
(1) Other pilots in air transportation service in aircraft of the category, ...
ts39136 is not a pilot, so this is not applicable.
Sorry for being so blunt in the first post, but I had to rush off to work. I think it's great that you're interested in aviation, but the unfortunate thing is there is no feasible (and legal) way to get around the system that's been set up. Believe me, I know. Many many pilots have tried, but everybody ends up taking one of the "traditional" routes in one way or another.
Last edited by Senior Skipper; 01-02-2009 at 02:39 PM.
01-02-2009 | 04:27 PM
#8
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From: 135 FO
The instruction can't count towards his PPL rating (for example), because he's being instructed in "air transportation service", not the tasks needed for a PPL, but it's still instruction that can be logged for TT and PIC.
If the PIC of the jet is also an MEI, then any instruction is fair game without question.
01-02-2009 | 04:50 PM
#10
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The way I interpret that reg (and it's always possible I'm wrong, but this is how I understand it), is that if ts39136 has a student pilot certificate and medical, then he is a pilot, and he can be instructed by an ATP in "air transportation service" in the aircraft that the ATP is properly rated in.
It's
An airline transport pilot may instruct -
(1) Other pilots who are in air transportation service...
not(1) Other pilots who are in air transportation service...
An airline transport pilot may instruct -
(1) Other pilots in the subject of air transportation service...
The overall idea is to have company ATPs instruct company pilots.(1) Other pilots in the subject of air transportation service...
Now, if you can find a student pilot who is already engaged as a company pilot...
Last edited by NoyGonnaDoIt; 01-02-2009 at 05:00 PM.
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