That is a ridiculous statement.

What about the person that works their tail off in a non-aviation field so that they can afford to pay for their training and then build some multi-time? This is not legit?

What about the person that comes from an aviation family and has access to lots of planes to build time in? This is not legit?

These people are not "stepping on your back." They just have had a different path than you did. And if all of the up and coming pilots out there were trying to get instructing, banner towing, skydiving, etc. jobs then I think that we would all be worse off because supply would greatly exceed demand and we would really have a hard time getting hours. Isn't it hard enough to get multi-engine students as it is?

 

And lots of professionals pay for their own training, certificates, degrees, etc. as a condition of employment.

 

You guys are drfiting off topic a little.
The OP was about CFI's perceptions to their own student's career paths or choices.
I agree with floridacfii but I also agree with some other points here too.
I instucted at both part 61 and 141 schools and would often try and have these candid conversations with my students.
Some would be receptive to it, others wouldn't so I didn't push the point too much.
The main thing I would make clear is that they need to understand what they are getting into and what the ultimate price to pay really is.
I would tell them that they need to make aviation work for them on their terms as much as is possible, not be a slave to it, it owes them a living after all their hard work.
Some would get it, others didn't want to hear it and did what they wanted anyway.
But all we can do is offer a different point of view and it's up to them to use it or not.
Good luck to all in these tough times.

 

Yes, I'm sorry for drifting off-topic, but since I'm new to these forums, I haven't been a part of these paying-for-type-ratings and time-building debates.

I just wanted to mention also that I recently inquired about a banner tow operation near me. I learned that you have to pay for the training, which is $2,600.... I guess banner towing is out now too then as a legit way to build time???

 

You have good intentions.. however these are idealistic and not realistic. Just as UFgatorpilot said other professionals pay for training based on what the demand of the market is respectively. I don't know how many people worked at a law firm as a secretary or paralegal and got the firm to pick up the tab on their B.S./B.A. and J.D....bottom line is that being a professional doesn't mean you don't pay for training at some point. ...There are ways not to pay for training at all.... let's say you go ANG and get all the training and even a beechjet type out of the deal, great! Realistically most people here have paid at least through CFIs., basically paid for a job.

Realistically here, Airlines are not the most profitable companies going right now or really ever. Great, Captains used to make $250k, what happened to those companies now? Most are or have been on the brink of collapse...The more the credit market shrinks the less jobs there are to build time as a CFI, etc... which in turn may boost wages for airline pilots...guess we'll see how the cookie crumbles.

As far as the thread drifting... it isn't really, because this is the heart of what the thread was about.

 

Given the recent hiring patterns of the regional airlines to hire pilots - who, though many consider unqualified, have this rating and and that-regardless of their limited apprenticeship- it's no wonder the rush to BUY the necessary ratings. I think one point that all flight instructors should emphasize is that the reason most jobs have an hour requirement is because experience is supposed to mean something. I posit that unless a person does a certain (flying) job for close to 1000hours they're still learning a great deal themselves. That first couple years of instructing - or towing gliders, towing banners, dropping jumpers, then flying 135, the learning curve is steep for us all.
Instructors should explain that a flying career is an apprenticeship. Move on only after you've taken the time to really do your current job well - market be damned. Do that and you'll have the chops when the next rung of the ladder comes your way. Doesn't happen every day, but occasionally I'll fly with a 90-day wonder who, I seriously doubt could manage a turbo centurion in IFR weather by themselves.

 

..........

 

smoothontop, the pay for training mentioned above does not generally include ratings and certificates to get to commercial, multi engine level.
The pay for training we are talking about includes the example of the banner towing training of $2600( half of a 737 type rating !!) mentioned by ufgatorpilot.
Keep it in context.

 

i will admit it is frustrating for some. let's look at things in terms of maybe the last 3 years?

someone may instruct for 2 years while flying part 91 charters on the side? or they instruct until they can get a cargo job? well then these folks find themselves in a 121 ground school and the person sitting next to them starting flying 3 months ago, shelled out $70K and still has their temporary commercial.

it is frustrating. i can assure you.

 

$70K in debt is nothing to be jealous of