Most efficient route to regional pilot gig?
05-01-2009, 02:54 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 10
Most efficient route to regional pilot gig?
So I'm sitting here in my cube where I work as an engineer, trying to figure out how the hell I can change my office chair into something more akin to a CRJ. 
I have a bachelor's degree in an engineering field from the University of California, and I'm about 45 hours into my PPL and have completed my first solo in a 172SP (it was relaxing and drama free too lol). My training is through a local flying club here in Palo Alto, CA. My question to the group is, what's the most tried and true way for me to get hired with a regional airline, without breaking the bank "too much"? I have no student loans and potentially have $20k-30k coming my way from company stock once the economy picks back up. So I'm trying to gauge how far this will get me along in my quest for a lower paying career. :P
Should I continue to get all of my ratings at the club, or would it be advisable to finish my PPL and then blast through the rest of the training at something like ATP? Are there really any hiring advantages to attending a school like ATP?
In either scenario, how much time is typically required as a CFI before you are attractive enough to get hired with a regional? Any advantage to being a CFI with ATP or another big school, vs being a CFI at a local club?
I apologize if all of this information is available by searching the forums; I did my best. Also, I'm only asking about the path into regional instead of major since I'm assuming that with a degree, moving to the majors would purely be a factor of seat time and learning on the job. Am I not correct?
Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me plot a path to a new career.
I have a bachelor's degree in an engineering field from the University of California, and I'm about 45 hours into my PPL and have completed my first solo in a 172SP (it was relaxing and drama free too lol). My training is through a local flying club here in Palo Alto, CA. My question to the group is, what's the most tried and true way for me to get hired with a regional airline, without breaking the bank "too much"? I have no student loans and potentially have $20k-30k coming my way from company stock once the economy picks back up. So I'm trying to gauge how far this will get me along in my quest for a lower paying career. :P
Should I continue to get all of my ratings at the club, or would it be advisable to finish my PPL and then blast through the rest of the training at something like ATP? Are there really any hiring advantages to attending a school like ATP?
In either scenario, how much time is typically required as a CFI before you are attractive enough to get hired with a regional? Any advantage to being a CFI with ATP or another big school, vs being a CFI at a local club?
I apologize if all of this information is available by searching the forums; I did my best.
Also, I'm only asking about the path into regional instead of major since I'm assuming that with a degree, moving to the majors would purely be a factor of seat time and learning on the job. Am I not correct?Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me plot a path to a new career.
05-01-2009, 07:56 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Posts: 999
Well, I was just joking, but fair enough after re-reading my post that it may have come off rude. I apologize.
How about some more constructive advice. You said you used the search tool. On any public forum new people will come on and ask the same questions over and over again. Your original post asks about four or five of them. You will find plenty of information on
1) ATP
2) Paths people have chosen to get to a regional
3) Current hiring trends and opinions on when things will change
4) How to most effectively complete flight training
You are going to HAVE to search. The reason I say this is because you cant just rely on us yahoos at APC to answer your question perfectly. Read Read Read and you will get a good jist of what the industry is like and be able to form your own opinion on the best way to a regional.
How about some more constructive advice. You said you used the search tool. On any public forum new people will come on and ask the same questions over and over again. Your original post asks about four or five of them. You will find plenty of information on
1) ATP
2) Paths people have chosen to get to a regional
3) Current hiring trends and opinions on when things will change
4) How to most effectively complete flight training
You are going to HAVE to search. The reason I say this is because you cant just rely on us yahoos at APC to answer your question perfectly. Read Read Read and you will get a good jist of what the industry is like and be able to form your own opinion on the best way to a regional.
Last edited by 250 or point 65; 05-02-2009 at 05:15 AM.
05-01-2009, 08:43 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
jimmy -
Sorry for some of the responses that you are bound to get out of your question.
It would be best for you to use the search function available on APC (see the blue bar near the top of your screen probably) and take some time to look trhough the flight training forums.
All of your questions above have been answered many times over in numerous threads.
I can't even count how many threads on ATP alone there are on the forum as a whole. I know it is a bunch of reading - but such questions as your with wide open ended questions are asked almost daily; so you'll find that some have short fuses.
Enjoy the forums and I hope you learn a lot!
USMCFLYR
Sorry for some of the responses that you are bound to get out of your question.
It would be best for you to use the search function available on APC (see the blue bar near the top of your screen probably) and take some time to look trhough the flight training forums.
All of your questions above have been answered many times over in numerous threads.
I can't even count how many threads on ATP alone there are on the forum as a whole. I know it is a bunch of reading - but such questions as your with wide open ended questions are asked almost daily; so you'll find that some have short fuses.
Enjoy the forums and I hope you learn a lot!
USMCFLYR
05-02-2009, 04:37 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Jimmy,
I'm a former mech engineer turned pilot... Like you, after graduating college (2001) and starting work as an engineer, I started flying for fun and decided I liked it so much I wanted to be paid to do it. After training for about 3 years, I quit my engineering job in 2007 to go fly full time.
The fact that you are thinking about debt is good... I highly recommend you stay out of debt throughout your training process, regardless of how tempted you may be to get a loan at some point. I paid cash for my flight training as I progressed along, and I'm so glad I did that now.
As far as where to train, I would strongly recommend your flying club as long as you feel satisfied that you are receiving quality instruction. The 172SP is a nice plane, but a little pricey. If you can, try to do your training in a R model or even an old N model or something if they it. The old planes look raggedy, but they all fly the same. I didn't even use a GPS until I started flight instructing, and I'm glad it worked out that way.
Places like ATP are popular, but they are extremely expensive and the way they are setup makes them impractical for paying as your progress. Also, the aviation industry is in the tank right now, and probably will be for a couple of years. If you take a couple of years to progress through your training, your timing will probably be perfect. If you were just getting out of a place like ATP right now, or even a year from now, you'd be screwed as you just wouldn't have the experience to compete for the very few jobs that are out there right now.
Regarding regional airlines, you may want to consider expanding your goals. Although the airlines used to be a desirable career path, they've really gone downhill in terms of pay and quality of life. They treat their employees very poorly, and many airline pilots are bitter and hate aviation. I come from an airline family, and my uncle was a senior capt at AA and still hated his job. That really opened my eyes...
Fortunately, there is a large variety of civilian flying outside the airlines, including freight, charter, corporate, etc. As a former engineer, I determined long ago that I would likely be happier working for a corporate flight department due to my background. I already worked in business, so I was used to dealing with a corporate environment. I love the challenges involved in corporate flying, as it is not as structured as the airlines and requires you to think on your feet more often and you wear many different hats. Also, the pay and quality of life in corporate is usually much, much better than the airlines.
As far as the progression to get to corporate, there are many possibilities. After getting my commercial certificates (for single and multi engine airplanes), I started flight instructing. That is typically the first paying pilot job civilian pilots get. Some people do things like flying sky divers, flying traffic reporters around, etc. But those jobs are not nearly as common, and seem to be getting more and more difficult to find.
After flight instructing for awhile, I got a job flying charter in king airs. That was a great experience, and it really added a lot of multi time to my resume. Also, as a charter pilot you are flying to the same locations as corporate pilots and have very similar job descriptions. This leads to some very good connections in the corporate world.
After flying charter for awhile, I upgraded to captain at my charter company and flew passengers single pilot in a piper chieftain. That was a great experience, and really boosted my confidence and flying skills.
I finally got my first break into the corporate world last fall, and am flying a new citation with a great company in south FL. They pay is far greater than the regionals, and I also get a lot of time off. When we do travel, we stay in nice hotels and eat very well. I love it!
Anyway, that's just one example of the many career paths to a professional flying job. Keep your mind open, take your time, stay out of debt, and you'll probably have a geat time. Good luck!
I'm a former mech engineer turned pilot... Like you, after graduating college (2001) and starting work as an engineer, I started flying for fun and decided I liked it so much I wanted to be paid to do it. After training for about 3 years, I quit my engineering job in 2007 to go fly full time.
The fact that you are thinking about debt is good... I highly recommend you stay out of debt throughout your training process, regardless of how tempted you may be to get a loan at some point. I paid cash for my flight training as I progressed along, and I'm so glad I did that now.
As far as where to train, I would strongly recommend your flying club as long as you feel satisfied that you are receiving quality instruction. The 172SP is a nice plane, but a little pricey. If you can, try to do your training in a R model or even an old N model or something if they it. The old planes look raggedy, but they all fly the same. I didn't even use a GPS until I started flight instructing, and I'm glad it worked out that way.
Places like ATP are popular, but they are extremely expensive and the way they are setup makes them impractical for paying as your progress. Also, the aviation industry is in the tank right now, and probably will be for a couple of years. If you take a couple of years to progress through your training, your timing will probably be perfect. If you were just getting out of a place like ATP right now, or even a year from now, you'd be screwed as you just wouldn't have the experience to compete for the very few jobs that are out there right now.
Regarding regional airlines, you may want to consider expanding your goals. Although the airlines used to be a desirable career path, they've really gone downhill in terms of pay and quality of life. They treat their employees very poorly, and many airline pilots are bitter and hate aviation. I come from an airline family, and my uncle was a senior capt at AA and still hated his job. That really opened my eyes...
Fortunately, there is a large variety of civilian flying outside the airlines, including freight, charter, corporate, etc. As a former engineer, I determined long ago that I would likely be happier working for a corporate flight department due to my background. I already worked in business, so I was used to dealing with a corporate environment. I love the challenges involved in corporate flying, as it is not as structured as the airlines and requires you to think on your feet more often and you wear many different hats. Also, the pay and quality of life in corporate is usually much, much better than the airlines.
As far as the progression to get to corporate, there are many possibilities. After getting my commercial certificates (for single and multi engine airplanes), I started flight instructing. That is typically the first paying pilot job civilian pilots get. Some people do things like flying sky divers, flying traffic reporters around, etc. But those jobs are not nearly as common, and seem to be getting more and more difficult to find.
After flight instructing for awhile, I got a job flying charter in king airs. That was a great experience, and it really added a lot of multi time to my resume. Also, as a charter pilot you are flying to the same locations as corporate pilots and have very similar job descriptions. This leads to some very good connections in the corporate world.
After flying charter for awhile, I upgraded to captain at my charter company and flew passengers single pilot in a piper chieftain. That was a great experience, and really boosted my confidence and flying skills.
I finally got my first break into the corporate world last fall, and am flying a new citation with a great company in south FL. They pay is far greater than the regionals, and I also get a lot of time off. When we do travel, we stay in nice hotels and eat very well. I love it!
Anyway, that's just one example of the many career paths to a professional flying job. Keep your mind open, take your time, stay out of debt, and you'll probably have a geat time. Good luck!
05-02-2009, 04:59 AM
#5
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
One of the better posts in recent memory, WRX. Thanks for sharing. People coming here for advice are looking for level headed, well-written posts like yours to guide them in making a decision, and there is no crime in sharing what you like and do not like about the life as long as you are sincere and willing to write coherently about it. Most people here love aviation whatever stage they are presently in, and they find that it adds meaning to their lives.
I think the key to getting something of value out of aviation lies in tailoring it to your individual need. It is not practical to expect a standard path to work out for you like it once did. You have to use your head and get into corporate, Part 135, or one of the many other forms of flying. You have to be flexible and keep up on what there is to be had out there. APC is very useful for that purpose.
I think the key to getting something of value out of aviation lies in tailoring it to your individual need. It is not practical to expect a standard path to work out for you like it once did. You have to use your head and get into corporate, Part 135, or one of the many other forms of flying. You have to be flexible and keep up on what there is to be had out there. APC is very useful for that purpose.
05-03-2009, 07:19 AM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: CRJ200, CRJ700, CRJ900, Left Seat
Posts: 71
5 Steps to Getting Started
There are a lot of ways to get to a regional and if that is your goal you need to act now and start getting all your certificates and ratings because even though the airlines aren't hiring right now and everything seems stalled (no pun intended), it can switch back around just as quickly as it shut down.
I was a programmer who made the jump when I was 35 but as it turns out, I'd been planning for the transition for a couple years. Here are 5 steps that I would recommend you take to get you on your way:
1. Review your financial situation, eliminate debt, and start saving money towards your certificates and ratings. Flight training is not cheap and is equivalent to paying for an advanced degree. The last thing you want is to put yourself into deep debt because unless you have something else to pay the bills, which I strongly recommed, the cost of flight training can add up.
2. Visit a flight school and talk to a flight instructor. Have them lay it out on the table for you about the training you are going to have to do. Ask them to give you some scenarios about how long it is going to take you. Warning: if the flight instructor isn't optomistic and realistic about the future of flying as a career, find one that is. You want a flight instructor with a "can do" attitude.
3. Buy a private pilot home study course and do it. If at the end of the course you aren't totally excited about the prospect of flying for a living, re-evaluate.
4. Take a Discovery Flight. Your local flight school should offer them. Buy a log book and record your flight. Again, if you aren't totally excited about the prospect of flying for a living after your flight, re-evaluate.
5. Finally, pick up a copy of AOPA's Flight Training magazine. This will get you motivated.
I traded in a 9 to 5 cubicle job for a cockpit and I don't regret it one bit. If you want to do the same thing you need to start now or you will be left behind when everything spins up again!
To Your Flying Success....
Jeff
I was a programmer who made the jump when I was 35 but as it turns out, I'd been planning for the transition for a couple years. Here are 5 steps that I would recommend you take to get you on your way:
1. Review your financial situation, eliminate debt, and start saving money towards your certificates and ratings. Flight training is not cheap and is equivalent to paying for an advanced degree. The last thing you want is to put yourself into deep debt because unless you have something else to pay the bills, which I strongly recommed, the cost of flight training can add up.
2. Visit a flight school and talk to a flight instructor. Have them lay it out on the table for you about the training you are going to have to do. Ask them to give you some scenarios about how long it is going to take you. Warning: if the flight instructor isn't optomistic and realistic about the future of flying as a career, find one that is. You want a flight instructor with a "can do" attitude.
3. Buy a private pilot home study course and do it. If at the end of the course you aren't totally excited about the prospect of flying for a living, re-evaluate.
4. Take a Discovery Flight. Your local flight school should offer them. Buy a log book and record your flight. Again, if you aren't totally excited about the prospect of flying for a living after your flight, re-evaluate.
5. Finally, pick up a copy of AOPA's Flight Training magazine. This will get you motivated.
I traded in a 9 to 5 cubicle job for a cockpit and I don't regret it one bit. If you want to do the same thing you need to start now or you will be left behind when everything spins up again!
To Your Flying Success....
Jeff
05-03-2009, 07:46 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: CFI - SEL
Posts: 179
Great pointers Jeff... 
Glad to see you dont regret your decision one bit.
Great to see other engineers here as well with the desire to fly.. Just another feather added to your hat... Props to you guys.
Agreed on WRX post..I read it about 5 times
Glad to see you dont regret your decision one bit.Great to see other engineers here as well with the desire to fly.. Just another feather added to your hat... Props to you guys.
Agreed on WRX post..I read it about 5 times
05-04-2009, 12:11 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Math Teacher
Posts: 2,274
Originally Posted by stealth114
Great pointers Jeff... Glad to see you dont regret your decision one bit.
Great to see other engineers here as well with the desire to fly.. Just another feather added to your hat... Props to you guys.
Agreed on WRX post..I read it about 5 times
Glad to see you dont regret your decision one bit.Great to see other engineers here as well with the desire to fly.. Just another feather added to your hat... Props to you guys.
Agreed on WRX post..I read it about 5 times
Hopefully, I'll be able to take a similiar route.
atp
05-04-2009, 07:31 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: USAF
Posts: 1,398
Originally Posted by jimmyz80
So I'm sitting here in my cube where I work as an engineer, trying to figure out how the hell I can change my office chair into something more akin to a CRJ.
I have a bachelor's degree in an engineering field from the University of California, and I'm about 45 hours into my PPL and have completed my first solo in a 172SP (it was relaxing and drama free too lol). My training is through a local flying club here in Palo Alto, CA. My question to the group is, what's the most tried and true way for me to get hired with a regional airline, without breaking the bank "too much"? I have no student loans and potentially have $20k-30k coming my way from company stock once the economy picks back up. So I'm trying to gauge how far this will get me along in my quest for a lower paying career. :P
Should I continue to get all of my ratings at the club, or would it be advisable to finish my PPL and then blast through the rest of the training at something like ATP? Are there really any hiring advantages to attending a school like ATP?
In either scenario, how much time is typically required as a CFI before you are attractive enough to get hired with a regional? Any advantage to being a CFI with ATP or another big school, vs being a CFI at a local club?
I apologize if all of this information is available by searching the forums; I did my best. Also, I'm only asking about the path into regional instead of major since I'm assuming that with a degree, moving to the majors would purely be a factor of seat time and learning on the job. Am I not correct?
Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me plot a path to a new career.
I have a bachelor's degree in an engineering field from the University of California, and I'm about 45 hours into my PPL and have completed my first solo in a 172SP (it was relaxing and drama free too lol). My training is through a local flying club here in Palo Alto, CA. My question to the group is, what's the most tried and true way for me to get hired with a regional airline, without breaking the bank "too much"? I have no student loans and potentially have $20k-30k coming my way from company stock once the economy picks back up. So I'm trying to gauge how far this will get me along in my quest for a lower paying career. :P
Should I continue to get all of my ratings at the club, or would it be advisable to finish my PPL and then blast through the rest of the training at something like ATP? Are there really any hiring advantages to attending a school like ATP?
In either scenario, how much time is typically required as a CFI before you are attractive enough to get hired with a regional? Any advantage to being a CFI with ATP or another big school, vs being a CFI at a local club?
I apologize if all of this information is available by searching the forums; I did my best.
Also, I'm only asking about the path into regional instead of major since I'm assuming that with a degree, moving to the majors would purely be a factor of seat time and learning on the job. Am I not correct?Thank you in advance to anyone who can help me plot a path to a new career.
If you really love to fly, just keep plugging away at it like you're doing. The less loans, the better, for obvious reasons. It certainly does take a long term commitment, especially if you're not taking a loan out for one of those over-priced pilot factories. You may find that airline flying is more or less attractive the more you are around those types... maybe you'll find your real niche is aerobatic instruction or corporate stuff.
If you're smart.... and a little shrewd, you could potentially get through all of your ratings for less than $30k.
Don't feel bad about posting your question on here.... this kinda stuff keeps APC going - and it's something for us common folk to share our useless knowledge.
05-05-2009, 06:00 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,575
I love my job and all the flying jobs I've had. I could never work in an office or do the 9-5 thing. I understand your feelings and wish you luck on a flying career. Your goal is a RJ at a regional airline? I'd aim a little higher than that. Regional airlines work you hard for no money. I did about 5000 hours in the EMB-145. My starting pay back in the '90's was $12/hr. My take home pay was $800/month. It got better, but don't plan a career at the regional level. Look at the regional airline as a stepping stone to a better job. I know the regionals end up being careers for many. It almost happend to me too. You can also keep your current job and fly for fun and even make money at it. Be open to many possibilities. Ejoy PAO, I use to fly out of that little airport with WVFC.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Bucking Bar
Major
1
02-04-2009 11:12 AM
