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Single List Survey Results (don't look if you have not voted)

Major Legacy, National, and LCC

Single List Survey Results (don't look if you have not voted)

Old 02-04-2009, 10:09 AM
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Default Single List Survey Results (don't look if you have not voted)

Thanks to all who participated, your thoughtful answers and comments. I will try to post this at each 100 responses and post the comments at the next update. Surveymonkee makes it hard to get the results out in a useful format unless you pay $20, but here's my best effort with the time I have:

1. What best describes your current career position:

2%......Student, Private Pilot, Instructor, Corporate, Part 91 or 135 operations
22%.....Airline Pilot under fee for departure arrangement; (ie ASA, Skywest, Continental Express, Trans States, Republic Airlines Holdings subsidiaries, etc)
25.00%....Airline pilot working for a owned subsidiary of a major airline brand; (ie Mesaba, Compass, Horizon, Comair, etc)
51%.....Airline pilot directly employed by the brand (ie, Delta, American, United, US Air, Southwest, etc)

2. How long have you been an employed airline pilot? (if not a airline pilot working in Part 121 service, please do not answer)

31.6% 0 to 2 years
19.4% 3 to 5 years
23.5% 18 5 to 10 years
8.2% 10 to 15 years
17.30% 15 15+ years

3. How long have you been an employed at your current airline?

49.50% 0 to 2 years
19.20% 3 to 5 years
12.10% 5 to 10 years
10.10% 10 to 15 years
9.10% 15+ years

4. Do you favor "one list" within the brand, or prefer multiple seniority lists?

75% Single seniority list, all flying performed by seniority list pilots
23% Multiple seniority lists, with limitations on outsourcing
2% Multiple seniority lists, with no limitations on outsourcing

5. What do you believe are the most significant factors in determining outsourcing and seniority list structures?

52.60% Airline Management / Practices
28.30% Union Management / Practices
23.20% Senior pilot preferences
8.00% Junior pilot preferences
22.20% Economic necessity

6. If a single seniority list is desired, how should the pilot groups be merged?

33.30% Pilots working for fee for departure carriers should expect and accept a "staple" placing them below pilots for the branded airlines
33.30% Pilots for fee for departure carriers should expect a "staple" with the ability to maintain longevity for benefits
33.30% Pilots for any airline should be merged Date of Hire

7. What do you think are the factors that most support a single seniority list within an airline's brand?

73.7% Career progression without loss of longevity
40% Better career earnings
62.1% Better job security
26.3% Improved employee relations
14.7% Reduced training costs
22.1% Improved management flexibility to meet a competitive marketplace
18.1% Ability to attract the most qualified job candidates
48.4% Improved unity within the profession

8. What do you think are the factors against a single seniority list within an airline's brand?

12.3% Career progression (start career with a smaller aircraft)
19.8% Career earnings (start career with less pay and concern that large aircraft pay would be cut to subsidize pay on smaller aircraft)
4.9% Better job security
18.5% Employee relations
18.5% Training costs
44.4% Reduced management flexibility to meet a competitive marketplace
13.6% Ability to attract the most qualified job candidates
16% Airline union groups should act independently without regard to other groups within the brand

Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-04-2009 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:12 AM
Can't abide NAI
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Comments to Question 6:

1.Can't have single seniority list for majors and regionals. Two seniority lists are neccessary, one for the majors, and one for the regionals, so lateral movement is possible within the respective pilot group. Regional pilots moving up to majors go to bottom of that seniority list but maintain longevity for benefits. Wed, 2/4/09 12:51 PM
NO PILOT SHOULD BE BUMPED FROM THEIR POSITION WITH THEIR CARRIER! FURTHER, just as the 'branded' carriers would expect that no 'contract' pilot would come up and bump them, no 'branded' pilot should come down . . . Wed, 2/4/09 12:37 PM
with no bump no flush Wed, 2/4/09 12:36 PM
Staple with seat fences for captains. Wed, 2/4/09 12:34 PM
integrate ala DAL/NWA..........ie., career expectations and relative seniority at previous carrier Wed, 2/4/09 12:00 PM
good luck, USAir can't merge 2 seniority lists, you think anyone will get an agreement to merge every seniority list? Wed, 2/4/09 12:00 PM
Those that are stapled should not lose their seat. So if Compass is stapled, then all the Captains should retain that position until they bid out of that position. Wed, 2/4/09 11:46 AM
Pilots for any airline should be merged by Date of Commercial License Wed, 2/4/09 11:38 AM
Staple but FFD pilots can have superseniority in their pre-merger category AND base (must do both, not just one) for 10 years. Wed, 2/4/09 11:26 AM

mediated lists with relative seniority being the main determinate Wed, 2/4/09 11:24 AM
Pilots for the wholy owned should be merged fairly within their airlines, but not date of hire. That means, a 20 year Captain at a regional should not automatically become a 20 year Captain at the major, but they should also not be stapled below the 1 year FO at the major. All the flying that the regional has done has been at the graces of the scope of the pilot at the major, so it is reasonable to give them preferential seniority counting. Perhaps something like a 3 to 1 seniority list for the majors, meaning every 3 years at the regional counts as 1 year at the regional. That gives the regional pilot who's been at the company for 20 years an automatic 7 years (almost) of seniority, which should allow them to either upgrade or maintain a prime schedule on premium equipment (aka money). It also allows the majors to not have an influx of 1 year regional guys be put above the people who have paid the dues to get through the system and get to a major. Everybody ends up being a little annoyed, which by my measure is the sound of a good deal. Fee for departure should be a straight staple, as they haven't tied their loyalty to one airline. Wed, 2/4/09 11:17 AM
Date of ATP and the seniority lists ONLY affect pay, not schedule or equipment bidding Wed, 2/4/09 11:13 AM
Percentage intergration with fences for domicile/equipment for similar seniority airlines, DOH for others Wed, 2/4/09 11:03 AM
Bring the planes, Interview the pilots Wed, 2/4/09 11:02 AM 15.ALPA join date. Wed, 2/4/09 10:42 AM

Comments to Question 7:

1.[/B]none Wed, 2/4/09 1:15 PM
the list goes on and on Wed, 2/4/09 11:24 AM
3.[/B]Better, more consistent product across for all the company's flying Wed, 2/4/09 11:21 AM
4.[/B]At Mesaba, management could downgrade an a320 flight to a Saab if need be, saving a huge amount of money. Since NWA/Delta work on the hub and spoke system, all the management team needs to look at is the flight out from the hub, and the flight in from the hub. Take the greatest number of passangers and pick the smallest aircraft to meet that demand. Having a domestic fleet with a range from 34 to 200 seats is much more flexible than 110 to 200 seats.

Comments to Question 8:

1.Increased cost other than training. Mgts inability to whipsaw one group versus another. Wed, 2/4/09 12:38 PM
Inability of airline management to whipsaw individual union groups Wed, 2/4/09 12:37 PM
mgmts ability to whipsaw, thus keeping our pay and benefits lower Wed, 2/4/09 12:23 PM
Senior Pilots don't think it affects them.... Wed, 2/4/09 12:23 PM 5.I don't think there is any negative to getting the entire brand under one list. Unity will help us all. Wed, 2/4/09 11:46 AM
Military guys will argue they "shouldn't have to pay dues" in smaller airframes. Tough, if you want big A/C, stay in the military or else you should have started in the civilian world. I don't believe the two should be linked, but good luck telling MIL guys that. Wed, 2/4/09 11:26 AM
the ability to whipsaw pilot groups with the current regional situation inflates the bottom line for the major and helps year end bonuses for top executives Wed, 2/4/09 11:24 AM
I see some very short term tension within the work groups because of percieved injustice of the merging (no matter how it goes), but the fact that the major won't be furloughing while the regional hires will quell the former majors pilots, and the fact that you're working for the major will not only show an increase in moral on the regional puke's side, but also improve customer service, because it's your airline now, not "some jerks who sold out scope to get a few extra dollars". Wed, 2/4/09 11:17 AM
Senior "I got mine" pilots will find a way to screw junior pilots out of seniority / pay. Wed, 2/4/09 10:50 AM
Mainline Pilots do NOT want regional pilots enmass on their seniority list. They have a god complex. Wed, 2/4/09 10:50 AM
As long as deregulation is in place, a single seniority list will never work. Today, for instance, if you'd make one list and increase everybody's pay according to their longevity, airlines will fall quickly. You'd see the regional/national/LCC carriers tumble. Wed, 2/4/09 10:48 AM
Greed Wed, 2/4/09 10:42 AM
senority... Senior guys at airlines will not want to see anyone come in front of them based on YOS Wed, 2/4/09 10:39 AM
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