maddogmax

I just got back off a long Asia trip and had the first look at the proposed seniority list presented by Delta at the arbitration hearings. I am confused. I read the opening statement from the Delta attorney who said that their proposal was based on a category/relative seniority list. So here are my questions.

1. I was hired in 01/85 and am currently a 330CA. My senority # is 8XX. When I look at the proposed list, I will be # 22xx with the first person hired after me (09/85) at Delta will be #3xx . That is my relative seniority question.

2. There are many pilots on the proposed list that would be way senior to me that are currently flying as B737 or B757 CA's. How does that fit into the Category argument?

Not trying to put fuel on the fire as we have yet to see the NWA proposed list but just trying to see how this list would be "fair and equaitable". I greatly appreciate any constructive response

acl65pilot

I am sure someone will explain it to you.
It works for what we are proposing. Up next you guys.

Check Essential

Delta's proposal is relative position. Your date of hire is irrelevant.
The lists were stovepiped and then NWA pilots and Delta pilots were slotted in based on holding the same seat on similar equipment. A330 Captains with 767-400 Captains. A320 FOs with 737 FOs, etc.

maddogmax

Not true. As I stated before, there are guys/ladies on the proposed list that would be way senior to me currently flying as B737CA. I don't believe that would be the "same seat on similar aircraft"

maddogmax

Is your date of hire on the Delta list irrelevant?

acl65pilot

It is not about DOH. People bid the 73N because it is some of the best flying in the system. Trust me it goes really senior.
It is not what they are flying but what their seniority can hold. Read stovepipe.

Check Essential

Sorry. I edited my post to add the "stovepiping".
The lists are stovepiped to account for "senior" pilots on smaller equipment. ie= someone choosing to remain senior in category for schedule and lifestyle reasons. Delta has some VERY senior 737 pilots who can hold 777 if they wanted to. I'm sure NWA has the same phenomenon.

Delta has some very desirable "dinner and a movie" trips on the 737. One day trips worth 9 hours. Never a layover. That might be the guys you are seeing.

Check Essential

No. Nobody jumps seniority within their own airline's list.

Xray678

First off, I am done arging DOH vs relative position. The DL and NW pilots disagree. We know that and arguing about it won't solve a thing. I will try to explain the questions you have asked, and I will try to leave any emotion out.

For number one, by a relative position argument you go in the list based on what you can hold, not your DOH. Ignore DOH for the purposes of looking at the Delta proposal. The people who end up around you on the list are likely holding the same thing you are.

For number two, as ACL said, there was a "stovepipe" applied. In other words, lets say Delta has 200 777 captains (don't know the actual number off the top of my head). For the sake of list construction, the first 200 guys on the Delta list are considered 777 captains, even though not all of them have actually chosen to utilize their seniority to bid that position. I know for a fact we have some pilots in the top 200 who are 73N captains.

As to how this list would be fair and equitable, I would say it is our position that it puts everyone on the list in the equivalent position as pilots who hold similiar equipment and have similar long term prospects.

I know for me personally, looking at the NWA guys right around me (+/- say 100 numbers) on the DL proposed list, they are all flying the same equipment as the DL guys right around me on the list, junior-mid level narrowbody captain or senior widebody FO.

sailingfun

Whenever you work on a SLI the first thing you have to do is rationalize each list or as put here stove pipe the lists. That means you figure out what each pilot would hold if he flew the highest category able. That means lots of pilots flying 7ER Captain at Delta for instance would appear as a 737 CA. The reverse can also occur a senior CA on one piece of equipment might hold better on another piece of equipment. I think 777 Captain goes down to 91 hires now. If you stovepipe the list the actual 777 Captain slots would only go to about early 86 hires. Keep in mind that this is only a opener just as DOH is the NWA opener. I don't think either list will be close to the final product.