Well, I'm going to ALLATP in Vegas next month for their cfi, cfii, mei course. I'll report back with how it went.

 

Get real, along with the rest of you. If that was true then airplanes would be falling from the skies since one out of a hand full of pilots you see out there has done their training at ATP since 85. Expressjet would have several accidents to their record considering it's basically ATP alumni. I have a lot of buddies that instructed at mom and pops while they waited for their turn to be an all multi instructor at ATP. FAA checkrides are supposed to be the same whether you prepared for 8 months vs 14 days which by the way is impossible unless you came well prepared a head of time. So no, it's not really a fast track CFI program, you were actually preparing for it the previous 90 days.

 

Why is everyone so freakin anti ATP anyways? Good and bad pilots also come from FBO's as well. Riddle turns 'em out, DCA, Ariben, they all do. Why so anti ATP?

 

Would ATP be considered the largest of these types of training programs?
If so.....the biggest kid on the block ALWAYS has a target on their back - whether they deserve it or not.
Also - in general - it seems that many are upset with the glossy advertising of the 0 to Hero programs and it looks like ATP leads the way in promoting themselves too.
Just an idea.

USMCFLYR

 

I was hired by three flight schools until they saw I went to ATP*. All three saw that and said no deal because it would take too long to teach me what I needed to know. I went home and erased ATP from my resume and was hired the next day. This all happened right in the middle of the last hiring boom when everyone needed CFI's.

*I got a Commercial Multi, MEI and II from them.

FWIW

 

ATP was the fastest way to get the bare minimums to be hired by a regional airline during the past boom. Doing Zero to Hero at ATP wont make you a good CFI, bush pilot, corporate pilot, banner tow pilot, or anything in the aviation industry except a warm body in the right seat of an RJ.

The quality of ATP flight school training is lacking.

 

I got my ATP at All ATPs in New Jersey. Seemed fine to me. Two flights and a check -- young IP got me as up to speed as I needed to be on the Seminole. My military training probably helped a bit.

If I had it to do over again, I probably would not do the one-day study-the-test-and-take-the-test ATP written. I passed, but it was a painful way to spend a day. That was my choice, though.

Overall, I thought I got what I paid for.

 

And how do you know this. Did you go to ATP. Because I did. And I made it all the way through with out ever busting a checkride. I also have a stellar pass rate on my students (need one more for the coveted gold seal, which will make 100% pass rate), and no, I don't work for ATP. Just like at any other school, there are always going to be bad apples. I was lucky enough to have none. It's the perfect program for someone who doesn't need or want the information spoon fed.

It is possible to go to an FBO, and receive shoddy training. I know, because one of my colleges is a shoddy instructor. And he got ALL of his training at FBO's. I also advertised on my resumes that I went to ATP, and thats what got me all of my flying jobs. Because I made it through without busting a ride, at ATP. The Chief pilots that hired me at all of the locations thought highly of it. I will admit, it is not for everyone, but if you are a self starter, study good on your own, and have the motivation to do a good job, ATP is great. If you lack any of those three, go find an FBO that is willing to spoon feed you the info. Just realize that you are going to have to pay for that as well.

Having seen both sides of the coin, IMHO, there is not much difference in knowledge gained, ATP vs. FBO. You just have to be willing to put the effort in no matter where you go, and don't expect to get zero to hero no matter what you do. If you don't read into ATP's advertising, and don't become informed on the industry, well than thats your own fault. But don't shoot me down, or anyone else and consider me or them less of a pilot because I/they went to ATP. I still believe in paying dues to get to the goal of being a respected captain some day. I am no less of a man/pilot than anyone else here simply because I went to ATP.


The quality has nothing to do with it either. We all have to pass the same checkrides, and meet the standards of the certificate/rating sought. So if I can make it going to ATP, and someone can bust a checkride at an FBO, whats your reasoning for that? What I have found, being around the industry for about 15+ years, is that most people who have a bad opinion on something is usually because it's either uneducated, or, due to a bad experience. I had neither at ATP. And if you read there advertising, they guarantee nothing but an interview. They DO NOT guarantee a job. I don't think they are even guaranteeing an interview anymore.


In closing, if your going to rip a school apart, do it because you are informed, not because you have read there advertising, and don't like it. Or that you don't like the fact that you used to be able to get hired at 250hrs with a wet commercial certificate. Because anyone with a wet commercial ticket could have gotten hired at one point during the hiring boom. I could have done it to, but I'd rather not fly for a regional airline, or any airline for that matter, because of the lack of respect from upper management that is making it way through the industry like a plague. I would also rather CFI for a while, so I am a more rounded individual. Don't shoot the messenger (ATP), because they took advantage of the industry, and the industry practices.

Be informed, stay away from any SJS if you can, and pick a school that suits your needs. It's your money, spend it how you see fit.

 

Mshunter has alot of good points and I agree with alot of what he/she said. I admit that I met and am still in touch with a few people that were there when I was there. In my experience ATP turned out either good pilots or really, really bad ones. Not much in-between.

The quality of instruction at the location I was at, during the time period I was there, was sub-par. Actually, the CFI I had was sub-par. Some of the CFI's were pretty good. I was not allowed to switch CFI's therefore, my experience wasn't very good. To each there own.

I did the research before hand and went in with my eyes reasonably open. I heard the people screaming to not go there. A few years later, looking back I ask myself if it was worth it? I'm not sure but I'm surviving. (I borrowed half the cost, payed cash for the other.) I couldn't survive servicing the debt on the entire amount and I hear the price went up.

If I had to do it all over again would I? No, not knowing what I know now. I would have bought my own twin and had something to sell.

Would I be here (present job) had I not had gone to ATP? Hard to say but I think so. My employer never looked at my log book and never asked about my multi-time. I fly Twin Cessnas 135 on salary(first year) for more than a 3 year Saab Capt. at Colgan

Was the experience I gained worth it? Yes, my experience at ATP helped me grow as a person more than most other experiences in my life so far. I learned that not punching d-bags in the face is good. I find the pace of training was good because 135 training was much the same. I loved the IFR X-C's. That was by far the most valuable experience I had. It really sewed up alot of "idle" knowledge getting to fly low altitude IFR from Seattle to LA to Jax to Ohio to LA and so on. That helped me alot from CFI'n to Flying 135. ATP has a really good thing going there. It's ashame to see FBO CFII's that have only been on the required flight plans for there ratings.

I don't think ATP is the best place to go now. I do feel it's alot better than most FBO's but there are far more cost effective ways to gain the same experience.

If you really want to go then do it. Bear-Down and study you rear off before, during and after. (No, you won't know everything when your done) Don't be chaising split tail and drinking beer while your there. You'll get cheated out of knowledge and money anywhere but ATP will do it faster than everyone else. It's up to you not to let that happen.

 

ATP trains you to pass the checkrides with handpicked examiners. Period. Everything else is pretty much self-taught. I will agree with another poster who said the IFR X-C portion is where a lot of it comes together. Not sure sure you could as easily replicate that type of multi-experience at an FBO. Understand that during that phase you have two guys logging PIC at the same time. Some may frown upon that time at a later interview...