sellener

Im confused...

If a CFI owns an aircraft and instructs out of, is he a commercial operator?


He could also call himself a flight school (part 61)..right?


What regulations apply to him?.....Drug/alcohol testing? TSA?

Ottopilot

If money changes hands, it's a commercial operation. Run away from it.

NoyGonnaDoIt

If you are asking whether he's a commercial operation in the sense that he needs a Part 135 operating certificate, no.

I'm not sure what Ottopilot meant by "run away" but from the FAA's standpoint there's nothing wrong with a CFI owning an airplane, instructing in it, charging for the instruction, and advertising the service. There are FAA regs that apply when you do it (such are the 100-hour inspection requirement) and there may be state business laws, local laws, airport minimum standards and insurance issues you have to think about, but the operation itself is perfectly fine without an operating certificate. Because of those other requirements, though, you really want to think it through with professional assistance before jumping into it.

He could call himself that or just an independent instructor with an airplane.

From a pure FAA regulation standpoint, there's really no such thing. You won't see such a creature referred to anywhere in the FARs. There are no certificates issued by the FAA to certify them in any way.

All a "Part 61 school" is is a business that rents airplanes and provides instructors to teach. It will generally pick up such things as taking care of 100-hour inspections, etc, but that's for the benefit of the employee-instructors. The FAR says the instructor has to makes sure that the airplane has the inspections; the school just takes care of it for its whole group of instructors.


Drug/alcohol testing, no. TSA, yes. 100 hour inspections, you bet. All the Part 61 regs that apply to instructor record-keeping, currency and endorsements - absolutely. There may be a few odd ones out there, but that's about it from the FAA end.

rickair7777

Not in this case.

FAR 119 specifically exempts flight instruction from most of the "commercial operator" rules, including the "holding out" restrictions.

The only FAR commercial requirement which applies to flight instruction is the 100 hour Mx check.

Either you or the student can provide the airplane (own or rent). If the student owns it, a 100 hour is not required. If the CFI owns it, you need the 100 hour. Rentals could go either way, depending on whether it is an FBO or club.

There are NO SPECIAL FARs which apply to part 61 flight schools. If you want to open one (large or small) you only need to comply with general part 61/91 rules for flying and whatever local/state/federal business licensing and tax laws apply. The rules for ground instruction are the usual part 61 stuff which applies to any freelance CFI.

For a part 141 flight school, there are specific operating rules which cover flight and ground instruction, and you have to apply for and achieve 141 certification from your local FSDO. You will need to actually operate as a part 61 flight school for a few years before you become eligible for 141...they don't want to give it out to amateurs. My understanding is that they are cracking down and trying to limit 141 proliferation...don't expect to see too many mom-and-pop operations getting 141 certs in the future.

sellener

The reason I was thinking drug/alcohol, is i remember reading about it in the list of exceptions in part 91 for stuff you could do and get paid for.....

The local FBO giving and advertising "sightseeing" flights.... for example

Correct me, or tell me my understanding is correct

For sight seeing within 25nm or however it reads... is ok to do and get paid for, if you communicate with the FSDO and get a LOA and show drug/alcohol testing in place.

NoyGonnaDoIt

Your understanding is generally correct with respect to sightseeing flights. But flight instruction is not sightseeing flights and not subject to the same rules.

rickair7777

Any sort of passenger carriage places the innocent and helpless public in a situation where their lives are in the hand of pilot who they know nothing about.


Flight instruction is inherently different in two respects...

-Except for a student's very first flight or two, the student has some knowledge of the instructor and his skills and attitudes.

-On almost all instructional flights, the student will be able to determine if the instructor is not flying in a safe manner.

Basically, students are not as helpless or as ignorant as the public, so they don't need the same protections.

NoyGonnaDoIt

I'm not so sure about that. Maybe not =as= ignorant and helpless but you don't have to spend much time on an internet forum where students ask a lot of questions to see just how little they understand the process they are in.

Personally, I think that the difference is a difference in the FAA's view of instructors. The FAA trusts them when giving instruction - from lower medical certificate requirements to allowing even allows a CFI to take a student for his first night flight without being night-current. There's also probably less potential for profit-motive-based abuse in the instructional setting where payment is based on one student at a time than there is even in non-Part 135 commercial sightseeing tours.