mestr024

Okay for starters lets see, I'm 21 and have been in the Army for 3 years with only 1 year left. My sole purpose for joining the Army was so that I could drop my Warrent Officer Packet and become a Helicopter Pilot. Now I had the opportunity to drop my packet and get picked up for flight school, but I realized that the Army really wasn't a potential career for me, plus the time requirements I'd have to fulfill as a pilot were too much in my opinion. So having said that I turned this option down, and it hurt because ALL of my live I've wanted to fly, I'd fly anything just for the feeling of sitting behind that cockpit. Since I was little I knew this is what I wanted to do, and I've considered just giving this dream up and just get a normal degree in Accounting or Finance and just start my career in these fields, but at the end of the day I realize that I wont be happy doing this and I know that I have to give flying a chance before I discard this dream.

So yeah I'm getting out in about a year and I qualify 100% for the Montgomery GI Bill and the Post 9-11 GI Bill, these I have heard help tremendously in a pursuit for flight training. I have started doing my research and have found schools such as ATP, ERAU, & DCA that are very veterans friendly and with my educational benefits I can pretty much cut 50-60% of the cost for your standard 0 hours to your "Airline pilot" certifications (I guess you could call it that lol). On average I'd have an out of pocket expense of 22K for my full training and certifications with the above schools.

This is my educational background, In the army I have attained 2 A/As one in Social sciences and another in Accounting. I could possible finish up my Bachelors in about 1 to 2 years. Now I know you guys are probably asking your self how my thread is even relevant to the topic of flying, because it seems like I'm just talking about my self.

So knowing and uderstanding my current situation my question is the following:

Do I go to a school like ERAU and obtain a B/S in Aeronautical Science and at the same time get my flight training or should I proceed to getting my flight training done at schools such as ATP or DCA?

Keep in mind that I DO have my military educational benifits and the cost is significantly lower than would a regular person would pay. Since the VA is paying approx 50% (or more of my cost) do I go to a school such as ERAU and knock out my B/S at the same time, making me more competitive in the world or aviation. Or do I go to a school such as ATP and do their 150 day faced paced program, get all of my certs and training done. I guess at the end of the day I would like to be competitive as well.

Sorry for such long thread, I just would really like to give my dream a shot, but I would like to approach it in the smartest way possible. Hopefully you guys are able to give me any insight and help. Thanks to those who reply.

Fourgoslot

My two cents: use the GI Bill to get a degree in something you could see yourself doing if aviation doesn't work out for you. I think the days of the 300 hour hire are long gone. Continue to work on ratings on the side, but don't waste your GI Bill on overpriced programs. Employers could care less about an "aviation" degree. I have the standard ERAU "Aviation Masters" because the Air Force wanted me to get one, but even I consider it worthless on the outside. Your military background will be a bigger selling point in getting a job. Bottom line...I'd use my benefits to secure a fall back career by getting a more marketable degree and fly on the side. One man's opinion. Good luck to you.

jakeedw7

I would call the VA if I were you, and get exact details about both the Chapter 30(Montgomery GI Bill) and chapter 33(Post 9/11 GI Bill) Chapter 30 is the program that offer 60% reimbursement, and chapter 33 will pay for everything as long as it's a part of your degree plan.

So the way I understand it is, chapter 30 will put you about $20,000 in debt at ATP and chapter 33 will actually pay for everything and give you E-5 BAH while your in school, but you have to ensure two things about chapter 33: one the VA approves the school, and two the school offers in-state tuition for vets(because there is a cap on how much per credit hour the VA will pay per state), I know University of North Dakota was going to start in 2009, but I haven't checked back to confirm. I'm not suggesting you go to UND, but to give you idea of where to look. The only bad thing is that it has to be apart of your degree plan in order for the VA to cover the cost, so you may have to major in Aviation or minor in it. Also consider you have 36 months of entitlement, and I would use them all if I were you. 36 months = about 9 semesters of benefit FYI.

I'm currently using chapter 33, wishing my school had an aviation department, but I'll still have 14 months left to use once I'm done.

Good luck!

Hacker15e

Just a dumb question here, but these two statements don't seem to match up.

On one hand, you're willing to do anything and fly anything, but you didn't want to dedicate the time required to fly as a Warrant Officer.

?

SaltyDog

Hacker15e,
Funny, having worked in a Liaison role with the Army I focused on the comment " I realized that the Army really wasn't a potential career for me" was valid reason to seek to 'fly anything' outside the Army! <g>

Mestr024,
Finish the degree in accounting as your backup. Forget the Aviation science. Engineering would be a good backup too or something that leverages your Army experience. You have a little time to prepare for an aviation career. If able, go get your Private Certificate now. Good luck.

hindsight2020

Consider the AF Reserves or Air National Guard. 10 year commitment but it's a Reserve commitment, so you can presumably min run it or transfer with greater control than fulfilling an active duty service commitment. You may not build hours as fast as you could on a regional, but then again putzing around a grass field on a C-150 will prove more tactical and 'fun' than following a caret with the autopilot on in a tanker while catching up on your ancillary training (nothing to do with flying), which is all you'll be doing at the airlines anyways sans takeoff, approach and landing.

Being 21 you still have a ton of time to get picked up before the UPT cutoff of 30 years of age. I am still somewhat puzzled by your skepticism for the time commitment; you do realize it's the military and there's no free lunch right? I recommend the Reserve components only because they provide the closest to what I would construe as a 'homesteading option', which is the number one reason I pursued the Reserves, with the accompanying paycut, straight off college.

If I were you I would do a gut check as to how fulfilling you really think droning around in airliners is really going to be, with the accompanying life schedule, compared to the opportunity cost of being an accountant 9-5 and pursuing a hobby on your off time. I say this because I know too many a regional FO who went zero to hero and hate life now and all of a sudden they want the fast track into a Guard/Reserve job and they're coming up to the 30 yo age deadline lickity split.

Also bear in mind, if the degree was an issue for pursuing officer pilot positions in the other branches, you could still pursue the army helo pilot route on the army reserves (they're not much of a reserve though ops tempo wise, and you know exactly what I mean). But don't sell yourself short just because of a flawed perception of what satisfaction you may draw out of a particular set of hypotheticals. That is not an efficient way of spending your productive life. Living life constantly disavowing the notion of foresight for the educated fool mantra of "i can only know something after I've done it" can be quite expensive and non-reversible in a life that affords you no do-overs. Which is why I love these boards for the young guys, you get to see people's outcomes without having to expend your own human capital in the process. I can tell you the information I uncovered on these boards was instrumental in my determination to never pursue airline work. Of course that will be your own journey, to each their own. Good luck.

ufgatorpilot

Give me a break! Why does everyone that has never actually worked in an office think that all office jobs are 9-5 with two-hour lunches?

rickair7777

Re-evaluate your priorities. Give very careful consideration to taking that WO gig. The army has a lot of FW airplanes now, and is getting more, so you can probably get the FW time you need for airlines/corporate/etc.

A 20 year AD career would have been a bit much for me, simply because I wanted a family at some point and couldn't rationalize how the two are compatible. But if you are young and single, and already accustomed to military service, that is the better path to aviation. But yeah, I have worked with the army too, so I can't say as I blame you.

You will be financially secure with benefits and training paid for...quite the opposite of civilian entry-level aviation. You can transition into the guard/reserves when your AD commitment is up, providing a critical economic fallback position.

If by some chance you have performance or discipline problems in your military record which would prevent you from getting a WO slot, civilian aviation is probably not going to work well for you either.

Also be aware that the post 9/11 GI Bill has some SIGNIFICANT limits on vocational training (including flight training). Research that carefully, I don't think it will pay for ATP, DCA, or any other "puppy mill" flight school. If you are eligible for the old GI Bill, you should be grandfathered to use that for flight training. Also be advised that those big flight schools just want your money...they will happily sell you a worthless commercial pilot license and launch you out into the world with no hope of employment. Do a lot of research...

And get a real degree, aviation science is useless in the real world. Civilian aviation will not provide you with uninterrupted lifetime employment...you will need some kind of outside skill.

hindsight2020

I never said they were. But they are a better alternative to those of us who value time at home for the price of getting paid penauts anyways. To get paid peanuts AND be gone from home like the business traveler that makes 3 times as much is just retarded. It all comes down to personal value of time. My time at home is worth much more than getting paid in ILSs and takeoffs.

If I'm going to be gone from home I want a monetary premium. Pilot scales are frankly uncompetitive across the board. As such I take my skillset home and do something else. If everybody was so content with their "TAFB-monetary compensation" ratio we wouldn't have this board now would we? The aforementioned accountant may hate his job, and he may not even get a 2 hour lunch, but at least he ain't working for free because he accepts an emotion as currency and compensation.

And an office? Brother, military aviation is a whiplash-inducing merry go round juggle between an old outdated steam gauge cockpit and an office. I spend 80% of my week stuck in an office doing what every other paper pusher does at the bank. Even going to do my primary duty is sometimes frowned upon by the "office managers". But you know what, they pay you cash in that office job, which is more than I can say for the 8 leg a day "out of sight, out of mind" reality of the pauper regional life with the discontent wife and kid waiting for the promised big ticket out of the lower middle class for the expense of a college education.

todd1200

I went to a puppy mill and used the CH. 30 GI Bill, and it doesn't cover anywhere near 60% of the cost of those schools -- just something like 60% of the cheapest plane in the country for the bare minimum of hours. You'd actually probably spend less out of pocket if you went to a less expensive part 61 FBO; then you'd also have the GI Bill for college and would have more fun flying. If I could go back I'd probably follow the advice of the other posters here and try to get a Guard/Reserve spot. If that's not your cup o' tea, it sounds like your best option may be to find a college that offers some kind of minor in Flight and use the Post 9/11 GI Bill to pay for college and flying - just get a major in some other field.