American Flyers?
06-23-2012, 05:47 AM
#31
ALL Days Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 385
Originally Posted by bcpilot
Rotor2prop
You are asking why a Marriott or a Hyatt is more expensive than a Motel 6 .?? The answer is obviious.........
American flyers is expensive & most of the programs are beyond the reach of common people... The clientale is mostly upper end, elite class who usually prefer quality & service over price....
The multi rating in particular is expensive because they use cessna 310, which is expensive ...
But sometimes you can find great deals on Mariotts & Hyatts as well, so they have a very great program....
The CFI Academy, very reasonablly priced CFI & CFII program escpecially at the KPMP location, which is worth every penny. At least it used to be like that, I don't know if it is still that way. If they still have the same great instructors who taught the CFI academy..
So, if you are on a budget for Multi & instrument, there are cheaper places...
Disclaimer: I am not trying to promote American flyers or put them down nor I am associated with this business in any way... I have just said what I observed with my own eyes.....
You are asking why a Marriott or a Hyatt is more expensive than a Motel 6 .?? The answer is obviious.........
American flyers is expensive & most of the programs are beyond the reach of common people... The clientale is mostly upper end, elite class who usually prefer quality & service over price....
The multi rating in particular is expensive because they use cessna 310, which is expensive ...
But sometimes you can find great deals on Mariotts & Hyatts as well, so they have a very great program....
The CFI Academy, very reasonablly priced CFI & CFII program escpecially at the KPMP location, which is worth every penny. At least it used to be like that, I don't know if it is still that way. If they still have the same great instructors who taught the CFI academy..
So, if you are on a budget for Multi & instrument, there are cheaper places...
Disclaimer: I am not trying to promote American flyers or put them down nor I am associated with this business in any way... I have just said what I observed with my own eyes.....
I see what your saying and agree to a point but from seeing AF equipment and facilities I would hardly consider it top of the line. I will agree that for the most part I have seen good instruction at AF.
The 310 is expensive to operate but I can think of one place right off the top of my head that has a 310 that doesn't even cost half of $7k to get 10hrs of dual in.
As for the CFI academy. I guess it is a good deal for a lot of people but where I feel the $2995 ad lacks is not telling people up front that the prices quoted do not include written tests (which the ad would make you think it does) and use of the airplane for the checkride. If you add in those costs plus the examiner fees its $4k or more. That could still be considered a deal for some parts of the country but its the advertising that I take issue with.
My Disclaimer: I am not bashing AF. I am just giving my opinion of their business model (which apparently works). I think anyone who goes there for their Instrument or CFI academy is getting good instruction but it can get expensive really fast.
06-23-2012, 06:57 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 949
Originally Posted by bcpilot
The multi rating in particular is expensive because they use cessna 310, which is expensive ...
There's no excuse to be charging people $7k just because you can.
06-28-2012, 07:20 AM
#33
New Hire
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 2
I don't make the business decisions for American Flyers, so anything I say in their name is a guess. I can tell you why I paid $7,000 for my multi engine training though.
The education:
My Private Pilot Cert and Instrument training was started at an FBO in Georgia. When I earned my PVT I never felt confident enough to fly anywhere other than the airports I flew to during my training. The first lesson for my IFR was an ILS, which is crazy because I couldn't even fly BAIF to the PTS yet.
When I went to AF I received an education for the IFR and Commercial. My confidence was strong and my ability was stronger.
Instructors:
My original instructors at the Georgia FBO were very immature, filled out their logbook in front of me making me feel like time not a student, and never preflighted or postflighted the airplane with me.
My AF instructors never spoke about time building, were with me during the entire lesson, and presented themselves as mature. In fact the two multi instructors at the time, one of which still teaches at AF, had more than 3,000 hours of dual given, and one of them had 1,000 in multi engine airplanes.
Bottom line for me is that I felt that I would get what I paid for. Some pilots look at an hour in the airplane is just a commodity and is only valued at the cheapest possible price. I don't feel that way. To me there are more components to an hour of flight time than that.
Again this is not the reason AF charges what they do for multi engine training. This is why I paid it.
Ian
The education:
My Private Pilot Cert and Instrument training was started at an FBO in Georgia. When I earned my PVT I never felt confident enough to fly anywhere other than the airports I flew to during my training. The first lesson for my IFR was an ILS, which is crazy because I couldn't even fly BAIF to the PTS yet.
When I went to AF I received an education for the IFR and Commercial. My confidence was strong and my ability was stronger.
Instructors:
My original instructors at the Georgia FBO were very immature, filled out their logbook in front of me making me feel like time not a student, and never preflighted or postflighted the airplane with me.
My AF instructors never spoke about time building, were with me during the entire lesson, and presented themselves as mature. In fact the two multi instructors at the time, one of which still teaches at AF, had more than 3,000 hours of dual given, and one of them had 1,000 in multi engine airplanes.
Bottom line for me is that I felt that I would get what I paid for. Some pilots look at an hour in the airplane is just a commodity and is only valued at the cheapest possible price. I don't feel that way. To me there are more components to an hour of flight time than that.
Again this is not the reason AF charges what they do for multi engine training. This is why I paid it.
Ian
06-30-2012, 08:10 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Three Grey Walls and a Wheely Chair
Posts: 26
I never heard nice things about their location at KISM. Not sure if they're still there.
I did watch someone execute a full on porpoise on landing, removing all those pesky antennas on the underside of the aircraft, and then used the grass to slow down.
I did watch someone execute a full on porpoise on landing, removing all those pesky antennas on the underside of the aircraft, and then used the grass to slow down.
11-13-2012, 10:54 AM
#35
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: CFI, CFII
Posts: 5
Originally Posted by Future SWA CAPT
Has anyone here had any experience with them and how did you get your multi engine time up for the airlines once you finished?
It really depends on your goals and time frame.
As far as Multi time, I got my Commercial Multi locally and am just renting to build time. Not great but it'll work.
On some level; aren't we pilots so we can fly? Hours are hours and any extra time in a plane is good experience and fun.
Good luck.
11-15-2012, 05:05 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 191
Originally Posted by COAviation
I took their 30 day CFI/CFII course in Dallas this past Summer. I was pleased with this program, especially for the cost. I agree about the vagueness of the hourly cost of the ground school. Overall I learned a lot and for about $4000.00 excluding my travel and lodging, it's a good deal. Our class had a guy from ATP, he said ATP was very hands off and you were expected to study on your own. ATP was not a good fit for him, but American Flyers was.
It really depends on your goals and time frame.
As far as Multi time, I got my Commercial Multi locally and am just renting to build time. Not great but it'll work.
On some level; aren't we pilots so we can fly? Hours are hours and any extra time in a plane is good experience and fun.
Good luck.
It really depends on your goals and time frame.
As far as Multi time, I got my Commercial Multi locally and am just renting to build time. Not great but it'll work.
On some level; aren't we pilots so we can fly? Hours are hours and any extra time in a plane is good experience and fun.
Good luck.
How many students have you had ?
I'm looking rather seriously into American Flyers at SMO.
How bad is instructing so far ??
11-27-2012, 05:54 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by COAviation
I took their 30 day CFI/CFII course in Dallas this past Summer. I was pleased with this program, especially for the cost. I agree about the vagueness of the hourly cost of the ground school. Overall I learned a lot and for about $4000.00 excluding my travel and lodging, it's a good deal. Our class had a guy from ATP, he said ATP was very hands off and you were expected to study on your own. ATP was not a good fit for him, but American Flyers was.
It really depends on your goals and time frame.
As far as Multi time, I got my Commercial Multi locally and am just renting to build time. Not great but it'll work.
On some level; aren't we pilots so we can fly? Hours are hours and any extra time in a plane is good experience and fun.
Good luck.
It really depends on your goals and time frame.
As far as Multi time, I got my Commercial Multi locally and am just renting to build time. Not great but it'll work.
On some level; aren't we pilots so we can fly? Hours are hours and any extra time in a plane is good experience and fun.
Good luck.
04-26-2013, 02:10 PM
#40
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 43
Yeah, I worked there
I worked at flyers for 6 months. Here are my thoughts:
The quality of instruction is good depending on the instructor you get, this is true at any flight school. Some Instructors are burnt out, some are just not that talented. You will get that anywhere.
Flyers charges a lot for their A/C. They also ding you pretty hard if you go over on hours (almost everyone needs more than the min.)
The CFI program that they advertise for $3K actually costs most people about 7K. Trust me I know I worked there, as a CFI, I know.
Weather can be an issue at the SMO location. I have seen people show up for the 4 week CFI program and end up staying loooooooger due to weather.
The 310 is way more airplane than you really need. Sure it has a critical engine, it is high performance, blah blah blah. Get the real world training in the real world when you are not paying for it. Get the 100 hours in anything cheap and move on with your life.
That is my two cents. Flight hours and DEBT will have a huge effect on the opportunities you can take advantage of in the future. Training debt should be avoided like the plague, ask any pilot making 20K a year and paying for 100K school loans.
The quality of instruction is good depending on the instructor you get, this is true at any flight school. Some Instructors are burnt out, some are just not that talented. You will get that anywhere.
Flyers charges a lot for their A/C. They also ding you pretty hard if you go over on hours (almost everyone needs more than the min.)
The CFI program that they advertise for $3K actually costs most people about 7K. Trust me I know I worked there, as a CFI, I know.
Weather can be an issue at the SMO location. I have seen people show up for the 4 week CFI program and end up staying loooooooger due to weather.
The 310 is way more airplane than you really need. Sure it has a critical engine, it is high performance, blah blah blah. Get the real world training in the real world when you are not paying for it. Get the 100 hours in anything cheap and move on with your life.
That is my two cents. Flight hours and DEBT will have a huge effect on the opportunities you can take advantage of in the future. Training debt should be avoided like the plague, ask any pilot making 20K a year and paying for 100K school loans.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Breton
Hangar Talk
0
06-24-2005 02:53 PM
