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UND CFI Hiring?

Old 01-23-2010, 06:11 PM
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With some regionals starting to hire, when do you think UND will be holding the next hiring workshop? Hopefully it won't be like this past May! Any current UND CFI's know?
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:33 PM
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Don’t waste your time instructing at UND...Even though it might seem like the only aviation job in the world while you are there its NOT!

There are so many better flying gigs out there that can give you more hours and more money.

With that said....I'll standby for the standard UND instructor/student to explain to me how Im wrong.

Let me guess...UND is a good place because...

1. guaranteed students
2. great leads into the industry only granted to instructors
3. good airplanes
4. good multi opportunity
5. ?

Truth...
1. Same deal at any flight school that is in business, otherwise said flight school would be out of business.
2. You still qualify b/c those interviews are for UND alumni, not just Instructors
3. This one is true, UND has great airplanes but if you are truly concerned about this you can find an FBO with some nice planes, not to mention is it worth getting paid 60% of what you could be making if you weren’t instructing at UND?
4. Well after you pay 10,000 for a UND MEI for a rating that you can get for 3,000 I would say I would rather work at a place that has a twin trainer and keep my 7k...or hey if I was that worried about multi I could buy a lot of time for 7,000....Im sure that would be a lot more fun than just flying the baron around ND.
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Old 02-14-2010, 05:23 PM
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I instructed at UND and a flight school in CA, both paid about the same but grand forks living is cheaper...but there were some big differences.

The maintenance at UND is great, you never have to fly broken airplanes, nobody pressures you to fly one, and they do fix them as fast as they can. I know the arrows are always broken, but at least you don't have to worry about feeling pressured to fly it.

Also having a division dedicated to just records is great, even though they can be a pain, it is a great way to make sure all endorsement and hours are met. Being all electronic reduces so many errors, smaller schools may use paper recorder keeping which can be a huge pain.

You can get health care at UND...which is a big deal to a lot of people, I don't think small flight schools offer this to you.

I enjoyed working for UND, and I know most instructors are eager to get out and just go anywhere, but if you keep positive, you will realize it's a great place to work.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:09 PM
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I currently instruct at UND and agree with both of your points. First of all to lay it out there I haven't instructed outside of UND so I make no claim to have any of the answers compared to life at another school.

Contrail:

1. Yes you do get guaranteed students even though it has it's busy and slow times for instructors. I think one good quality of UND is that if you do have an MEI you could have upwards of 3-5 multi students a semester when another instructor at an FBO may see that many students, in this economy, over 2 years. Bad quality, some semesters you may have 3 students total all Private or Basic Instrument. It can be hit or miss.

2. Great leads into the industry? If people do not know this by now they may be helpless but having experience (hours and quality hours nowdays , i.e. TT, PIC, Multi, turbine) and the proper certs is the only lead into the industry no matter where you come from.

Also where are these great leads? Great leads into an underpaid (as in you take a pay cut when leaving your CFI gigs for an RJ), poor QOL, regional jobs. Great leads come from networking.

3. Good Airplanes. Yes UND does have wonderful maintenance. Those guys work hard to keep our fleet the way it is and are the backbone of UND. Props to them.

4. Multi Students. Yes you do have a great opportunity to have more multi students than a FBO. With that many undergrad and contract students you have access to a high potential of multi students, but no guarantee. Like previously stated I don't know to many FBO's with to many non foreign contract students with Multi students lining up.

5. There are some other pros to UND like Twebb said. Life and health insurance, low cost of living, and records (another backbone of UND that as instructors we take for granted).

Let me make this clear, it may sound like I am one big UND cheerleader but that is far from true. I look at the personal benefits for me, in my situation not from any other person, to each their own.

Cons:

1. The scenery, weather, some UND policies, some of the people within the organization.

2. Yes the MEI program is a scam and with the newly instituted policy that you have to receive your MEI at UND to be guaranteed standardization it makes it even more troubling. 10K is a real high estimate for the cert. I paid 4.5K. Could I have got it for less absolutely. Could I have done a 3 day program and not go through 20 lessons, no question. But hey UND is a BUSINESS and supply and demand allows them to require it from UND to teach there, right or wrong who knows? Who knows whether the policy will change in 3, 6, or 12 months.

3. Pay. Based on pay grade you can make anywhere from 11-25 an hour. That is low compared to FBO's or freelance instructors, but after a few months their is no reason why you could be making 19/hr with a CFII and if you are willing to work hard 25K is achievable. (still a pathetic yearly income but look at the pay rates of the regionals that are hiring). If you can go to an FBO and make more go for it, it;s probably a good opportunity.

Overall, for many UND, just like other flight instructing gigs are jobs not careers. If you can financial make it work and are happy then more power to you. Just like any job, UND is not for everyone.

In response to the original question:

No I don't foresee a lot of hiring activity at UND in the very near future because of leaving instructors. A few have been hired by the regionals that have recently started hiring. Many of the more experienced instructors could have left a year or two years ago in the "big" hiring spree but didn't for whatever reason. I don't foresee a mass exodus from UND number one hiring hasn't picked up that much, two there are a lot of guys on the street those airlines would rather have than a 3 year CFI, and three those guys are still at UND waiting for Skywest, expressjet, 135 or whatever, probably not Gojet, Great Lakes, or Colgan.

I hope this can shed a little light on "MY" opinion and experience with UND. Like I have said it is based on personal experience. I am here for my own reasons and opportunities and after a much thought and consideration decided to make the best of the circumstances.

Best of luck to all and Wapilot for your sake I hope you find something whether that be UND or someplace else.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:13 PM
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Maximilian2, My son may be going to UND in the future.
Would you recommend he start in the summer for Avit 102 if possible.
Can you CFI at UND and still be a student finishing your degree. For example
if you got your CFI your jr/sr summer semester.
Do you think that may be too difficult and best just to wrap up your degree then try to get hired.
Thanks.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:57 PM
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Starting in the summer is never a bad idea. Normally 102 takes the longest for students to complete and summer gives you a 6 day a week schedule but completing in 9 or 12 weeks can still be tough. To be honest I would probably recommend starting in the fall, enjoy the last summer before your son starts college and stay an extra summer or two where you can complete one or two of the shorter in a summer to get ahead. If you look at some of the courses like 221 (basic instrument), 222 (instrument procedures) , or 323 ( single engine commerical) they are around 20 lessons, as compared to 28 of all brand new info in 102. On top of that you already have year or two under your belt and understand the town, have friends, have living arrangements. I started 102 in the spring of my freshman year and was hired as a CFI the summer between junior and senior year which was made possible by completing summer courses.
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Old 02-16-2010, 05:39 AM
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Thanks for the info. Your right on enjoying your last summer home.
As for the question of being a CFI at UND before you graduate, is that possible or
is it too much .
Thanks. again for replying.
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Old 02-16-2010, 07:41 AM
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That is most of the instructors. Usually Juniors or Seniors. And the multi program is hit or miss when everyone is hiring the MEI was free if you stayed a year. Now that no one is hiring they are going to take you behind the woodshed to get it.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:04 AM
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I would say since the hiring at the airlines has stopped most instructors have graduated, but historically most instructors in the passed were students finishing their degree or just recently graduated. Who knows what it will be like when your son has his CFI? It could be worse, it could be better. My Sophomore year students were told that we would see hiring unlike anything ever seen before. Which we did.... about a year before anyone had the minimums (300TT and a heartbeat). Now those people don't have a choice but stick around and those graduating now, who are not hired don't have the opportunity to get hired because of lack of attrition. Either way you look at it what is currently going on today may or will not be the case 2-4 years from now.

As you probably know as a MD-11 Capt. things change just go in knowing your sons "plan" may change.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:06 AM
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If you guys come up for orientation or a visit, shoot me a PM and I would happy to show you around and give you any insight I can.
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