RipTide7

Hey guys, I am a senior Economics major attending Villanova University and am focused on a career in aviation after college.

Through everything Ive learned i believe i understand the basics of commercial aviation. It all comes down to flight hours when hiring, the pay is extremely low in the beginning, the hours are very long, jobs are difficult to come by and seniority is everything. The state of the economy isn't helping either. I have read several articles on beginning pilots making about $20,000 - $40,000 a year for the first five to ten years of career flying. All while paying off the debt accumulated from expensive flight training. It is an extremely challenging career to get into and has its fair share of risks. I'm sure you know all of this but i bring it up because i understand these challenges yet still want to pursue this career.

My flight experience is not much. When i was seventeen to eighteen i accumulated a total of fifteen hours. Ive only flown once since than. I would have done anything to continue my flight training then, but money was an issue, and with college coming up i couldn't afford to finish. I knew from the first time i was given the controls that i wanted to fly. I also learned that paying as you go for flight training is not the most effective route if you run into delays, though hours could be wasted.

I looked very seriously into military aviation. Last year i spent six months applying for a flight contract with the Marines. I had no problem with the Aviation Standardized Test Battery (ASTB),and performed very well in the physical fitness test, have twenty twenty vision, but was caught up on a medical waiver to go through. Its old medical history and doesn't effect my ability to fly in any way. After exhausting every method to get my waiver though and four months of waiting it came back denied, which effectively ended the availability of any military aviation path.

Since then i have been researching flight schools to get my certifications needed. The primary school i have been looking at is ATP in Jacksonville. The school seems good, with their fast track program that takes a student from zero hour to their CFI rating in 150 days. this comes with 150 hours of multi-engine time, airline style cross country flying, simulator time, check rides, pretty much everything needed. The downside is that it costs nearly $55,000. Paying back this debit for the first part of my career is going to be difficult. i have also heard good and bad personal stories of students that went to ATP. Many sources say that "you pay $40 for a $15 steak" at ATP. Others defend it to the end with the quality of instruction and environment that they teach you in.

So thats my whole story, i feel like the more info you guys have the better you can help me. Thanks for reading and i appreciate any input.

Purpleanga

It's refreshing to hear from someone that actually knows how things work already before they dive into this career. Unfortunately even though ATP is the best way to do it quickly, it's not the cheapest and it's also not the best way to do it right now. Most did ATP and ate the extra costs because everyone was hiring and it was easier to get a loan from anyone knowing that a job was waiting for you at the end of training. Now that most are not hiring, you can afford to spend more time training which will allow you to shop around for the best price. ATP is really the last place you should be going right now because they are only good for getting your ratings quickly so their 150 day option is really a waste. Either do it for 90 days and get the ratings quickly or do it 150 days at a cheaper place.

Part of me wants to steer you away from pro flying since the industry is in a downward spiral and you still have time to do something else but seeing that you actually do have a passion for it having been serious about the military and everything, I wish you good luck.

de727ups

I'm not a fan of zero to hero programs. If you could find a small school you could save money and potentially get better instruction. You'd be better off getting a job and flying part time. It will take longer, but you'll save money, and learn more real world stuff outside the academy environment. I wouldn't worry about the multi time, either. Your goal should be to get to the CFI (which actually wouldn't be a bad rating to get from ATP) and then get a full or part time job instructing. Work your way up to 135 mins (1200 total) and then you would have a shot at a light twin freight job with little multi time.

There is really no reason to be in a big rush until the biz picks back up again. Age 65 needs to work itself out and the economy needs to get better. Even so, I'm not a fan of cutting corners just to get on a seniority list ASAP. Take your time and form a good foundation as a pro pilot. It starts with your PPL. Good luck.

RipTide7

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm not really looking at ATP for the speed. It interests me because it gives me a chance to fly where theres mostly good flying weather year round (live in Jersey, looking at ATP in Jacksonville), and if i complete my training with them i have a better chance of getting a CFI job with them afterwards. I understand ill still have to pick up some second job during this period, but at least ill be building hours. I have also spoken to someone who did the 90 days to get his ratings at ATP and wish they got his private from them at the same time to. He was hired as a CFI after his certification too.

Other than ATP i guess ill have to see what local flight schools have to offer.

RipTide7

Another option would the the self paced program, same as the 150 day course but slower pace. This gives me a chance to work while I'm receiving my training. Some local FBOs Ive found will put me at $42k for my commercial without the CFI rating, so ATP doesn't seem as badly overpriced as i first thought. They also include more in their program.

babs

I went to ATP and would say that I had an overall good experience. I received good instruction and passed all of my checkrides the first time. The CFI course in Atlanta was a joke (basically it was study on your own), but heard that the one in Jacksonville was very thorough. I do feel like I over paid and I do know people that did not have good experiences. The main reason I chose ATP was because I had already received my Bachelor's Degree and was looking to fly as soon as possible. I feel like if I wouldn't have gone there I would still be trying to get my commercial instead of making money teaching with my CFI/II and MEI.
Although the flight instruction job may seem lucrative with the amount of multi time you would receive, I personally passed up the job when it was offered to me. Trust me in that you would not have the time for a part time job while working for ATP. The flight instructors work 7 days a week and were there easily 12 hours a day when I went there. They also recently decreased the monthly pay from $2000 to $1500 a month. They don't take out taxes so you have to pay those at the end of the year. Overall, the company does not treat it's employees well. Let me know if you have any questions.

RipTide7

Thanks babs, i definitely know how you feel about wanting to get flying asap after college and glad to hear you had a good experience with ATP. I actually had the rare opportunity to speak with Jim Graham, vice president of flight operations at delta airlines. He gave me a lot of sound advice hes learned over the years, and even lives in Jacksonville. What stuck most with what he told me was that if i try to get my commercial license part time, then thats exactly what the extent of my aviation career will be, part time.

elmetal

I disagree with that.

To go and go fullpower on the 50k at ATP is crazy because after you get out of there, first you'll be lucky to find a flying job with 250 hours.
and second, you'll be lucky to find a job that pays enough to even pay back your loans, much less eat.

your aviation career is what you make it. your aviation training is what you can afford to make it.

RipTide7

Well, just to get a commercial license at FBOs somewhat near me is looking at just over 40k. Not including cfi. Jacksonville gives free housing to its flight instructors and will be hiring instructors in the next year. The financing is manageable, includes room for living expenses and i will be going into this with some savings. Also age 65 does need to work itself out but ""should"" present some opportunity when i actually have enough hours to be looking seriously at regional jobs.

elmetal

Working at ATP is worth it for building hours. going into debt for training is what I was talking about.