INTERNET PILOT

14 CFR 61.3 (d)

The part in bold is what I don't understand. What exactly defines this? If I'm riding along with a student who is working on Lazy-8's and I'm helping him with that, I'm "exercising the privileges of that flight instructor certificate", correct? Therefore I'd need it with me. What about if the student is about to leave for a solo XC for timebuilding purposes, and I decide to ride along. In that case am I "exercising the privileges of that flight instructor certificate"?

Basically the way I see it, the only privileges the flight instructor certificate gives you is the ability to sign off 8710's and make logbook endorsements. Neither of which occur in an airplane. So why are they making this distinction? On the other hand, 61.3(a) I can understand because all the privileges associated with a pilot's certificate can only be exercised in an airplane.

By the way, I'm not asking for advice here. I'm aware it's best to just have all the docs with you at all times. I'm just wondering why the FAA decided to use that specific wording, and what they exactly meant by it.

rickair7777

Yeah, it would only be required if you were ding something which would not be legal if you were not a CFI...

Signing off an 8710 or other FAA endorsement.
Conducting a flight which will result in a dual given logbook entry.
Flying with a student pilot: This is not legal if you are not a CFI.

Anything else, you could BS your way out of it.

But really...just carry the darn thing in your wallet.

INTERNET PILOT

Yeah but that doesn't happen when you're in an airplane.
How could anyone prove this? Additionally, where has the FAA defined "intent to log dual given" as acting as CFI. Lets say I'm a CFI and my father is a private pilot with 5 times more hours than me. We do a $100 hamburger flight together. The FAA does a ramp check and determines I'm in violation of this reg because they think I'm going to log it. Doesn't seem fair...
Huh? Its not legal to fly with a student pilot unless you have a CFI? You sure?

jedinein

I've been ramp checked when although I hold a CFI certificate, but was not instructing. I was asked, "are you an instructor?" and responded, "I am an instructor, but was not instructing." The FAA Inspectors interviewed my pilot-rated passenger separately. My passenger confirmed he just being a passenger. In the FAA's logbook review a few days later, if they were concerned, they would have noted that flight logged without dual given.

It's really simple, if you're acting as a flight instructor, have your certificate and the certificate which it requires with you.

Now if you are an A&P mechanic, you don't have to have the certificate with you, thus the wording.

INTERNET PILOT

My point is that "acting as a flight instructor" is not defined anywhere. If you're a CFI with no MEI and you're riding along in an twin to teach the PIC how to use the GPS unit, are you "acting as a flight instructor"? What if you don't hold a flight instructor certificate at all?

Lets say there's an owner pilot who is flying with his wife. This guy is a commercial pilot with no instrictor ratings. He explains to his wife how to use the radio and make a landing incase he has a heart attack or something. Is he acting as flight instrictor? Will he get violated if the FAA finds out he is doing this? If he did happen to have a flight instrictor certificate, will the FAA bust him if they find him holding short of the runway without his certificate on board with him? Where is the line drawn between acting as an instrictor and just flying around not as a flight instructor? It seems to be it would be impossible to define.

rickair7777

The language does not specify that instructor duties must occur in the airplane. An AGI has to posses his ticket when doing ground duties. You are unlikely to get "ramped" while doing ground of course.


You are absolutely correct in that if your student backs up your story then it would be impossible to prove otherwise. But if you tell the fed that it's not an instructional flight and he looks over at your student and says "Is that true?"...your career depends on how fast your student can think and how willing he is to lie for you.

100% sure. By student pilot I mean the holder of a student pilot certificate. In that case only a CFI giving dual can fly with him, otherwise it must be solo flight.

A student pilot can take pax on an instructional flight, but only with an instructor in the right seat.

A private or better pilot who is getting instruction for some rating can fly with anyone he likes of course.

This whole thread is ridiculous...put your CFI cert in your wallet.

rickair7777

Anyone can teach another pilot (or non-pilot) all they like. You are only required to posses a CFI if the flight is going to count for FA requirements...ie logged dual instruction for aeronautical experience.

Non-instructor teaching is best described as mentoring...knock yourself out, it's totally legal.

The issue here is a CFI who is not carrying his cert...he cannot give FAA-required dual that gets logged for aeronautical experience. Or at least he had better not get caught.

jedinein

Be v-e-r-y careful here, I've been through this one too. It cost me three months of my life to fight it. Teaching GPS is my specialty.

For part 91 ops:
If you are a CFII holding a commercial multiengine certificate, you can provide and log instruction on the GPS, under the appropriate task in the Instrument PTS. Make sure you have 5 hours in make and model (I don't agree with this part, but the FAA didn't ask me). Make sure your CFII & commercial/ATP certificates are in the plane.

If you are an MEI, knock yourself out, make sure you have 5 hours in make & model. Make sure your MEI & commercial/ATP certificates are in the plane.

If you are Joe Schmoe off the street teaching the GPS, do not occupy a required pilot station, and do not log it as dual given nor endorse the pilot's logbook as dual received along with refraining from logging it as PIC unless you are PIC, nor count any of the items conducted on the flight towards an IPC or BFR, knock yourself out. Leave the certs at home unless you are PIC, then carry what is needed for the PIC part. If anything happens, unless you are PIC, you are a pilot-rated passenger. Make sure your client knows this. If there might be a question, get it in writing.

INTERNET PILOT

The language includes "in the aircraft", which I take to mean if you're exercising your CFI privileges in an airplane, you must have that certificate with you. And where exactly does it say in the regs that you must have your AGI with you when doing ground lessons? I can imagine a scenario where an instructor runs into a student at the supermarket, they start talking, the syudent asks a question, and the instructor has to say "I'm sorry I can't answer that, I don't have my AGI on my person, and I don't want to violate any regulations"



There is no such thing as "instructional flight" in the legal sense as set out by the regs. Take for instance "Common Carriage". The regs spell out explicitly what actions constitutes an operation common carriage. Holding out (or showing willingness to hold out) in carrying persons or property from place to place for compensation or hire. No such definitions exist for what consititutes "instructional flight". An FAA agent asking the student "is this an instructional flight" is akin to asking "Is this a destructional flight".

Have a reference?

Have a refrence for this? I'll give you 100 bucks if you can even find a single refrence ANYWHERE in the FAA regs that mention airman privileges in relation to the left or right seat.

INTERNET PILOT

The way I understand it is that you need the 5 hours in type and the MEI to do any training required for a certificate or rating. That includes instrument rating requirements (the long cross country, the 3 hours in the last 90 days, etc), or a multi-engine add-on rating. If you're doing the flight to satisfy a flight review, you don't need a MEI nor do you need 5 hours in type. Actually now that I think about it, you might still need the MEI, I'll have to check. I'm positive you don't need the 5 hours though.