RVSM Question
05-30-2010, 05:06 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: DH8D FO
Posts: 62
RVSM Question
My company purchased a new CJ3 and after we changed the N number we submitted a RVSM manual to the FSDO, but have not received approval yet. We have a 1500 nm flight on Tuesday and I really don't want to be stuck below FL290. Has anyone ever requested a transition of RVSM airspace to with a negative RVSM aircraft? If so, how did you file? Did you file for FL430 for example and put "NEGATIVE RVSM" in the remarks? According to the regs it's legal, but I've never done this before. Thanks in advance.
05-30-2010, 05:31 PM
#2
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
File the appropriate suffix, put NEGATIVE RVSM in the remarks section, file your preferred altitude and when you check in with Center say "negative RVSM" and getting up to altitude shouldn't be an issue...although there very well may be a delay for the climb (which would allow you to get to VMo and have plenty of energy for an aggressive climb rate).
How long has FSDO had your manual? If its been more than 3-4 weeks a call to the inspector to see what the problem is might be useful...
How long has FSDO had your manual? If its been more than 3-4 weeks a call to the inspector to see what the problem is might be useful...
05-30-2010, 07:02 PM
#4
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Originally Posted by ce650
Just fly the altitude you want. The FAA is so behind the power curve they will never know.
05-30-2010, 07:37 PM
#5
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: TC-12B (SELRES)
Posts: 304
Now, I don't know much about your airplane, but if you can get ABOVE FL410, then you can legally transit RVSM airspace to get on top. I have done that in an airplane up to FL450. I would file to whatever your above FL410 altitude is and make sure that your ICAO filght plan has all the correct codes showing non-RVSM. Just keep saying that you are requesting transit of RVSM airspace.
I would not fly in RVSM airspace even if the controller allows it. You can still get a violation if a sup comes in or you get pushed into a different sector. Good luck.
I would not fly in RVSM airspace even if the controller allows it. You can still get a violation if a sup comes in or you get pushed into a different sector. Good luck.
05-30-2010, 08:05 PM
#6
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Details to Do It Legally
lwaddle:
The T-38 I fly (and I think this is true for every fighter aircraft in the country) is not RVSM certifiable because:
1. We don't have an autopilot
2. Don't have an altitude-alerter
3. Don't have two sources of pitot-static
4. Don't have independent altimeters
Nonetheless, I have flown in RVSM airspace legally. I also dealt with this in a Lear 35 that took 9 months to get the paperwork on the OPSECS after the mod was done. (Yes, that was frustrating).
How to:
Check the AIM for exact format, but file the highest legal altitude you can fly (either 270 or 280), and in the remarks, "Request FLXXX; Negative RVSM" (That's how I file it; it works).
First Controller above FL230, tell him "Request FLXXX, negative RVSM." That's the key.
He will give it to you IF traffic permits. However, for HIM to be legal, he needs no one inside a cylinder 2000 ft above and below you. The front of the cylinder is 20 miles in front, not sure if it is 20 miles all around, or if it is 20 front, 10-ish on the side, and 5-ish behind.
Either case, that is a big chunk of moving airspace, centered around your airplane, and why it is so traffic-dependent. Almost impossible on the east-coast corridor. Best luck is late at night, and over the western half of the country.
IF he gives you clearance, every altitude call you make must include "Negative RVSM," even if just checking-on with the next sector.
Do NOT just file it and fly there as (I hope) CE650 was kidding.
Just re-read this and realized you were asking about transiting RVSM. If your jet can go that high, yes...easier, but he (ATC) still needs the 20-mile/2000 bubble around you to give you the climb or the descent. Once above 410, you don't need to say negative RVSM...but when you descend into it again, yes (until below it).
The T-38 I fly (and I think this is true for every fighter aircraft in the country) is not RVSM certifiable because:
1. We don't have an autopilot
2. Don't have an altitude-alerter
3. Don't have two sources of pitot-static
4. Don't have independent altimeters
Nonetheless, I have flown in RVSM airspace legally. I also dealt with this in a Lear 35 that took 9 months to get the paperwork on the OPSECS after the mod was done. (Yes, that was frustrating).
How to:
Check the AIM for exact format, but file the highest legal altitude you can fly (either 270 or 280), and in the remarks, "Request FLXXX; Negative RVSM" (That's how I file it; it works).
First Controller above FL230, tell him "Request FLXXX, negative RVSM." That's the key.
He will give it to you IF traffic permits. However, for HIM to be legal, he needs no one inside a cylinder 2000 ft above and below you. The front of the cylinder is 20 miles in front, not sure if it is 20 miles all around, or if it is 20 front, 10-ish on the side, and 5-ish behind.
Either case, that is a big chunk of moving airspace, centered around your airplane, and why it is so traffic-dependent. Almost impossible on the east-coast corridor. Best luck is late at night, and over the western half of the country.
IF he gives you clearance, every altitude call you make must include "Negative RVSM," even if just checking-on with the next sector.
Do NOT just file it and fly there as (I hope) CE650 was kidding.
Just re-read this and realized you were asking about transiting RVSM. If your jet can go that high, yes...easier, but he (ATC) still needs the 20-mile/2000 bubble around you to give you the climb or the descent. Once above 410, you don't need to say negative RVSM...but when you descend into it again, yes (until below it).
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 05-30-2010 at 09:44 PM.
05-30-2010, 08:22 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
lwaddle:
The T-38 I fly (and I think this is true for every fighter aircraft in the country) is not RVSM certifiable...
The T-38 I fly (and I think this is true for every fighter aircraft in the country) is not RVSM certifiable...
I **think** the Super Hornet was just recently certified though it doesn't have any of the items that you listed. The military was the cause of the exclusion in the first place - or so I was told at the Hornet Safety Systems Working Group in 2007. They started working on getting the strike/fighter community back into the block.
Iwaddle - Though I have not filed into RVSM lately - I have flown in it with the ATC's permission and like advised - I was sure to let them know that I was not properly equipped.
USMCFLYR
05-31-2010, 04:14 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by ce650
Just fly the altitude you want. The FAA is so behind the power curve they will never know.
Iwaddle... get in contact with an ATC specialist for policies and procedures for transiting RVSM airspace.
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