Is my dream still valid?
08-12-2006, 01:26 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 42
Is my dream still valid?
Dear airlinepilotforum'ers,
My name is Elliott Bowman and I have wanted to be an airline pilot for as long as I can remember. I'm 16 years old and will be entering my junior year in High School. I am currently on vacation in Victoria, BC even though I am from Seattle, WA. This whole vacation I have been doing nothing but reading up on and researching the aviation career field. I stumbled upon this site just a couple of days ago and I wanted to see if I am setting realistic methods to achieve my life long goal of becoming an airline pilot. I currently possess zero flight ratings but have flown my Uncle's piper pacer many times. Most of my flight "experience" comes from Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004 and its MANY add-ons. I have probably close to $1000 worth of flight sim gear and have logged close to 600 hours on it recreating real world airline operations. I try to simulate everything as close to real as possible and I found out it was pretty darn when I received my 16th birthday present from my Uncle. It was two hours time in a Full-Motion Level-D 767-400 sim at Boeing Field. When I got their the instructor wanted to talk through all the different op's and all that but I asked if I could just fly sooner than later so I didn't waste away my two hours. He said sure and later said he was amazed that I could fly a 767 in zero visability and that the sim at home really does help. So obviously, it doesn't count towards anything but keeps me occupied instead of getting into trouble at home. I do not want to seem like a know-it-all or anything at all! I completely realise that I am nothing but an airline pilot wanna-be and have been my whole life.
I always write the pilot a note on every flight that I'm on and many times we exchange emails and are still in contact to this day. So I have been doing this for a couple years and have gained many new pilot friends. I have been asking them all how to get where they are today and with their advice, I have formed this general plan on how to go about becoming a pilot. Finish high school, attend UND and get my major in commercial aviation and a minor in economics. However, as I've seen by researching this site, a major in something else can help. So maybe I could double major economics with aviation? I really don't know if that is possible and hey if it takes extra time, so what! Better safe than sorry if my dream comes tumbling down due to a lost medical or whatever might be thrown my way. Hopefully the medical won't be an issue because as of right now I'm a two sport varsity athlete so I'm in pretty good shape and with a 3.9 gpa, extra education is no problem. Anyway, back on track...attend UND, get my degrees along with all the ratings up to CFI. Then I planned on returning to my hometown (Seattle) and trying to get a CFI job up here or where ever I can find work. Continue working as a CFI until I gain the precious hours and then start applying like mad to every possible regional out there. Then hope to get lucky and get hired and start the climb up the chain to the majors. Several pilots have told me, hey if you truly are as passionate as you say about flying, you will make it. I do believe I am pretty passionate, since it basically consumes me 24/7 haha. However, I want to be realistic and not make some training decision that will shoot me in the foot. I have pretty much zero interest in going the military route unless it is a last resort.
Money is not really a huge issue but I am far from loaded so I need to get my licenses reasonably (note UND not Embry). As I was saying, most pilots have been encouraging me positively and helped me a ton with my journey to becoming my dream. however, last week I ran into a pilot on my flight home from boston who told me the industry is screwed and to never go into it. This really blew me away because everyone else I've talked to has said go for it and this was the first pilot to say NO. This really set me back because he said I may get hired as a regional FO but then be stuck there forever and never make it to the majors because they just arent hiring. He said his airline still has 2800 more pilots on furlough to hire back before they start taking regional pilots up. So basically everyone, I want to know if I am being realistic and if my dream is achievable. I have wanted this all my life and would really like to know how to make it happen. I am only 16 so I have lots of time to figure this out, however, I believe the earlier I start, the better off I will be. Thank you so much airlinepilotforums and everyone who reads/responds!
I always write the pilot a note on every flight that I'm on and many times we exchange emails and are still in contact to this day. So I have been doing this for a couple years and have gained many new pilot friends. I have been asking them all how to get where they are today and with their advice, I have formed this general plan on how to go about becoming a pilot. Finish high school, attend UND and get my major in commercial aviation and a minor in economics. However, as I've seen by researching this site, a major in something else can help. So maybe I could double major economics with aviation? I really don't know if that is possible and hey if it takes extra time, so what! Better safe than sorry if my dream comes tumbling down due to a lost medical or whatever might be thrown my way. Hopefully the medical won't be an issue because as of right now I'm a two sport varsity athlete so I'm in pretty good shape and with a 3.9 gpa, extra education is no problem. Anyway, back on track...attend UND, get my degrees along with all the ratings up to CFI. Then I planned on returning to my hometown (Seattle) and trying to get a CFI job up here or where ever I can find work. Continue working as a CFI until I gain the precious hours and then start applying like mad to every possible regional out there. Then hope to get lucky and get hired and start the climb up the chain to the majors. Several pilots have told me, hey if you truly are as passionate as you say about flying, you will make it. I do believe I am pretty passionate, since it basically consumes me 24/7 haha. However, I want to be realistic and not make some training decision that will shoot me in the foot. I have pretty much zero interest in going the military route unless it is a last resort.
Money is not really a huge issue but I am far from loaded so I need to get my licenses reasonably (note UND not Embry). As I was saying, most pilots have been encouraging me positively and helped me a ton with my journey to becoming my dream. however, last week I ran into a pilot on my flight home from boston who told me the industry is screwed and to never go into it. This really blew me away because everyone else I've talked to has said go for it and this was the first pilot to say NO. This really set me back because he said I may get hired as a regional FO but then be stuck there forever and never make it to the majors because they just arent hiring. He said his airline still has 2800 more pilots on furlough to hire back before they start taking regional pilots up. So basically everyone, I want to know if I am being realistic and if my dream is achievable. I have wanted this all my life and would really like to know how to make it happen. I am only 16 so I have lots of time to figure this out, however, I believe the earlier I start, the better off I will be. Thank you so much airlinepilotforums and everyone who reads/responds!
08-12-2006, 01:58 PM
#2
Chief Jeppesen Updater
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Executive Transport Driver
Posts: 3,080
Elliott,
The industy is in a major state of change right now, but I do believe that there will continue to be a need for pilots. I just depends on the type of flying that you ultimately want to do.
I too once sat in your shoes, wanting to be an airline pilot from a very young age. I attended UND from 96-00 and was hired by a regional in Dec 2000, shortly after graduation.
However after working for the airlines for a few years (and enduring both upward and downward movement, ending in furlough and eventually the closure of my company), I have found that there are many other segments of the industry which continue to excel and provide excellent working conditions.
While the goal of being a major airline pilot might not look so grand right now (or in the immediate future), I think there will continue to be plenty of opportunites in aviation. Areas like fractionals and corporate operators are on the rise, as is flying overseas. The introduction of Very-Light-Jets has the potential to create a trememdous need for pilots and change the face of the airline industry.
If flying is your dream, I encourage you to pursue it. Only you can determine if it's something you want to do. I do recommend studying other things too (econ sounds like a wonderful backup!).
Do your research, have realistic expectations and understandings about the upsides and downsides of the industry, and make the decision based on your own thoughts... not those of somebody else.
If you want to chat, you can email me via this forum or through my website (www.crosswindlanding.com) and I'd be happy to offer other insights.
~Josh
The industy is in a major state of change right now, but I do believe that there will continue to be a need for pilots. I just depends on the type of flying that you ultimately want to do.
I too once sat in your shoes, wanting to be an airline pilot from a very young age. I attended UND from 96-00 and was hired by a regional in Dec 2000, shortly after graduation.
However after working for the airlines for a few years (and enduring both upward and downward movement, ending in furlough and eventually the closure of my company), I have found that there are many other segments of the industry which continue to excel and provide excellent working conditions.
While the goal of being a major airline pilot might not look so grand right now (or in the immediate future), I think there will continue to be plenty of opportunites in aviation. Areas like fractionals and corporate operators are on the rise, as is flying overseas. The introduction of Very-Light-Jets has the potential to create a trememdous need for pilots and change the face of the airline industry.
If flying is your dream, I encourage you to pursue it. Only you can determine if it's something you want to do. I do recommend studying other things too (econ sounds like a wonderful backup!).
Do your research, have realistic expectations and understandings about the upsides and downsides of the industry, and make the decision based on your own thoughts... not those of somebody else.
If you want to chat, you can email me via this forum or through my website (www.crosswindlanding.com) and I'd be happy to offer other insights.
~Josh
08-12-2006, 05:24 PM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 32
Hey Elliot,
Wow you remind me of ME.
If you are so passionate nothing will stop you, so don't let some crew who is probably having a bad day or tough time with his company (paycuts/pension), hold you back. I say pursue it with all you have and just keep going, you will face a lot of hurdles but just keep at it.
I do want to say something very strongly
DON'T, I repeat, DON'T major in something where obtaining your certificates is part of your credits/degree. I mean dont major in professional pilot, major in whatever it doesn't matter, ex. aviation management. I say this because I learned this the hard way. This happens to so many students and then they get stuck.
As far as carrer options, there are too many. The Aviation industry is too vast. You can do anything--- flying itself is ony a small fraction.
Hope I was helpful
Wow you remind me of ME.
If you are so passionate nothing will stop you, so don't let some crew who is probably having a bad day or tough time with his company (paycuts/pension), hold you back. I say pursue it with all you have and just keep going, you will face a lot of hurdles but just keep at it.
I do want to say something very strongly
DON'T, I repeat, DON'T major in something where obtaining your certificates is part of your credits/degree. I mean dont major in professional pilot, major in whatever it doesn't matter, ex. aviation management. I say this because I learned this the hard way. This happens to so many students and then they get stuck.
As far as carrer options, there are too many. The Aviation industry is too vast. You can do anything--- flying itself is ony a small fraction.
Hope I was helpful
08-12-2006, 06:14 PM
#4
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Dream
Elliot,
Just remember that there is a price for everything in life and the cost of an airline career gets higher everyday. In the end in order to be successful it might cost almost every other dream that you may have in life like; home, family, friends, hobbies, financial security and self respect.
There will always be airline opportunities and perhaps in the future there will be more jobs however it most likely will be due to the fact that fewer people will want the career anymore.
We all like to dream of being at the helm of a 777 on a CAT3 approach but neglect the rest of the picture. Like being away from home for more than half the year. All the expensive training costs, wasted years as an impoverished CFI through regional FO. It is easy to overlook the volatility of the industry that can erase advances won over years of sacrifice in a flash or shut you out entirely while waiting for things to improve. We only have our sights on the end and overlook the price of getting there which can be higher that you are willing to pay.
My advise similar to that of a Financial Planner. Never invest more than you can afford to loose and have a pull out point and plan "B" in mind.
SkyHigh
Some dreams are best left as such.
Just remember that there is a price for everything in life and the cost of an airline career gets higher everyday. In the end in order to be successful it might cost almost every other dream that you may have in life like; home, family, friends, hobbies, financial security and self respect.
There will always be airline opportunities and perhaps in the future there will be more jobs however it most likely will be due to the fact that fewer people will want the career anymore.
We all like to dream of being at the helm of a 777 on a CAT3 approach but neglect the rest of the picture. Like being away from home for more than half the year. All the expensive training costs, wasted years as an impoverished CFI through regional FO. It is easy to overlook the volatility of the industry that can erase advances won over years of sacrifice in a flash or shut you out entirely while waiting for things to improve. We only have our sights on the end and overlook the price of getting there which can be higher that you are willing to pay.
My advise similar to that of a Financial Planner. Never invest more than you can afford to loose and have a pull out point and plan "B" in mind.
SkyHigh
Some dreams are best left as such.
Last edited by SkyHigh; 08-12-2006 at 06:17 PM.
08-12-2006, 07:08 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: DHC-8 SIC
Posts: 634
When I read your post I felt the passion and the determination that you have. Very good I am impressed. Don't be discouraged by the industry's general appearence in the present. When this looks bad something else looks really good. The majors looks really bad right now, but like flyerjosh said, fractionals/corporate as well as cargo companies seems to be gaining huge profits. When you start flying you will realize that flying a "huge airplane" isn't all about it. I am glad that you have the passion, because it is important that you follow your heart and do what it takes to get through your ratings. At some point you will figure it all out. My advise is do not abandon your dreams. Like the above posters mentioned, the aviation industry is too vast, and you will find a secure job. Bottom line, of course your dream is valid and very much realistic. A 4 year degree (something you can use as a backup preferably) as opposed to me whose degree is well I don't think I will ever become a writer/lobbyist, librarian. But that's just me. You are still young, you got a good start. Since you are only 16, I advise you visit a couple of local FBO's and start flying atleast once or twice a week. Hey who knows, by the time you graduate from high school you might even have your PPL! That will make things much smoother.
08-12-2006, 08:07 PM
#6
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Grounded...HS student
Posts: 77
Hey Elliot,
I swear we have the exactly same situation, only backwards. I'll explain.
I'm from Victoria, BC and just got back from vacation in Seattle, WA. I'm a about to go into senior year at my high school here. I play varsity hockey in Victoria and I'm also a avid flight simmer. I started working towards my PPL last year and have no regrets thus far. I also plan on attending UND next year to obtain my CPL and CFI. I'd like to return to either Victoria, Vancouver or Seattle to work a CFI and enjoy time building in the truely beautiful Pacific Northwest (well, I guess we'd call it Southern BC hehe). Last summer I started a summer job at Victoria International (YYJ). I was lucky enough to get on as the yougest ramp agent ever for Horizon at Victoria. This is my best advice. I hear our SEA station is looking for ramp agents. Why not try and apply for QX in Seattle? I've learned soooo much from Horizon. Everything from load coordination, which we use everyday, to getting up in that deicing bucket and learning to spray (inside edge, outside edge etc.). During turns, you build great connections with the pilots. They are all very friendly.
About 50% of QX pilots came out of UND, which ultimately made up my mind. I was looking at UBC, UVic, UC-Long Beach, ASU etc. UND stood out from what I've heard from the pilots themselves. Even if you can't get hired by an airline, try a local FBO or part 141 school. Do some discovery/demo flights and see which school (and most importantly, instructors) fit your style and schedule. I would suggest starting on your PPL and working at the same place, if possible.
Also, if you don't mind Canada, the industry here is a bit different than south of the border. Our mins are rather high, but, instead, after those regionals, our majors are hiring like crazy! Air Canada is extremely short of 'bus pilots right now. There is no furlough here. I'm planning on doing my training in the states, as well as my first few flying jobs, then trying to get on with Air Canada or Westjet in Vancouver.
Also, don't think FS9 is such a great tool. In fact, it actually messed me up for my first few flights in a C152. Flight sim is good for airliner systems, and IFR gauge work, but nothing more. It can't help you in your beginning stages of flight or anything VFR for that matter.
Lastly, don't think too much about this at your age. I did the same thing as you, and the only regret would be not doing normal stuff, like partying and hanging out with friends. Last year I tried to fly every saturday morning and would go to bed early on friday nights, missing out on all the fun stuff. Enjoy Victoria, enjoy your vacation and don't start to worry about schools until this upcoming spring.
Feel free to PM if you have any questions, as I've just recently (still, actually) gone thru this whole school process.
Blue skies,
Connor
I swear we have the exactly same situation, only backwards. I'll explain.
I'm from Victoria, BC and just got back from vacation in Seattle, WA. I'm a about to go into senior year at my high school here. I play varsity hockey in Victoria and I'm also a avid flight simmer. I started working towards my PPL last year and have no regrets thus far. I also plan on attending UND next year to obtain my CPL and CFI. I'd like to return to either Victoria, Vancouver or Seattle to work a CFI and enjoy time building in the truely beautiful Pacific Northwest (well, I guess we'd call it Southern BC hehe). Last summer I started a summer job at Victoria International (YYJ). I was lucky enough to get on as the yougest ramp agent ever for Horizon at Victoria. This is my best advice. I hear our SEA station is looking for ramp agents. Why not try and apply for QX in Seattle? I've learned soooo much from Horizon. Everything from load coordination, which we use everyday, to getting up in that deicing bucket and learning to spray (inside edge, outside edge etc.). During turns, you build great connections with the pilots. They are all very friendly.
About 50% of QX pilots came out of UND, which ultimately made up my mind. I was looking at UBC, UVic, UC-Long Beach, ASU etc. UND stood out from what I've heard from the pilots themselves. Even if you can't get hired by an airline, try a local FBO or part 141 school. Do some discovery/demo flights and see which school (and most importantly, instructors) fit your style and schedule. I would suggest starting on your PPL and working at the same place, if possible.
Also, if you don't mind Canada, the industry here is a bit different than south of the border. Our mins are rather high, but, instead, after those regionals, our majors are hiring like crazy! Air Canada is extremely short of 'bus pilots right now. There is no furlough here. I'm planning on doing my training in the states, as well as my first few flying jobs, then trying to get on with Air Canada or Westjet in Vancouver.
Also, don't think FS9 is such a great tool. In fact, it actually messed me up for my first few flights in a C152. Flight sim is good for airliner systems, and IFR gauge work, but nothing more. It can't help you in your beginning stages of flight or anything VFR for that matter.
Lastly, don't think too much about this at your age. I did the same thing as you, and the only regret would be not doing normal stuff, like partying and hanging out with friends. Last year I tried to fly every saturday morning and would go to bed early on friday nights, missing out on all the fun stuff. Enjoy Victoria, enjoy your vacation and don't start to worry about schools until this upcoming spring.
Feel free to PM if you have any questions, as I've just recently (still, actually) gone thru this whole school process.
Blue skies,
Connor
08-12-2006, 08:54 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
Hey Elliott.
Did you know there's an aviation high school in Seattle?
http://www.aviationhs.org/pub/pub.aspx
I think you're dream is still valid. Aviation has it's ups and downs. I've been around long enough to see it. It may never be what it used to be but I'd have a hard time telling you not to pursue flying if that's what you want to do. You should check out the home page at jetcareers.com, I think you'd find some good info in addition to what you've seen here.
I have a friend who's a CFI at Galvin's, a flight school at BFI. I got to be friends with him when he was your age and even flew with him a bit. Now he's pursuing the career. I bet he'd give you a tour of their facility when you get back to Seattle.
If you're interested, email me at: [email protected]
Did you know there's an aviation high school in Seattle?
http://www.aviationhs.org/pub/pub.aspx
I think you're dream is still valid. Aviation has it's ups and downs. I've been around long enough to see it. It may never be what it used to be but I'd have a hard time telling you not to pursue flying if that's what you want to do. You should check out the home page at jetcareers.com, I think you'd find some good info in addition to what you've seen here.
I have a friend who's a CFI at Galvin's, a flight school at BFI. I got to be friends with him when he was your age and even flew with him a bit. Now he's pursuing the career. I bet he'd give you a tour of their facility when you get back to Seattle.
If you're interested, email me at: [email protected]
08-13-2006, 01:46 PM
#10
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 91
Hey Elliott..you made a smart move from finding this site...I remember you from VATSIM...I'm enrolled at the flight tech program at CWU and so far I like it alot...if you have any questions about it PM me or let me know on this thread regards, Chris...
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