Say I know someone who is about to start instrument training who I want to split plane time with. For both of us to get pic time one of us needs to be under the hood. Is he allowed to wear the hood and log simulated instrument even though he's not instrument rated? I ask because I don't think he'd want to split time if i'm always the one flying under the hood. He'd get the time but he would be bored out of his mind. Also, the answer is probably no but if the plane is not legal ifr can one of us still go under the hood and log the time for things like level flight, turns, etc? I obviously wouldn't file ifr or shoot an approach but I thought i'd ask.

 

If you are a private pilot you can act as safety pilot provided that: (ok good excuse for me to pull out the AIM from the dust

91.109
b) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless
1. The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
2. The safety pilot has adequate vision forward and to each side of the aircraft, or a competent observer in the aircraft adequately supplements vision of the safety pilot; and....

ii. The person manipulating the control has at least a private pilot certificate with appropriate category and class ratings.

Is he allowed to wear the hood and log simulated instrument even though he's not instrument rated?
The simple answer is yes. It could count towards his instrument rating requirements. Remember the 3 hours of simulated instrument time you needed for your PPL? Those 3 hours counts for your instrument rating!

please correct me if I am wrong. But, you can only log time (as a safety pilot) when the other person is under the hood. If you are a private pilot, you have to be seated in the left seat to log hood time. You can't switch the hood between 2 PPLs.

 

I knew about the safety pilot logging. I was unware that it had to be in the left seat though. Reason is a few guys I'm flying with aren't with the club that I fly with so they technically couldn't sit in the left seat.

 

As I mentioned before, remember that the right seat safety pilot must be the legal and responsible PIC to log the PIC time. You will need to verify that is acceptable with wherever you are renting the plane from.

The whole idea of two people getting PIC for the same flight is that if the aircraft or the conditions under which it is operated requires two pilots then the one manipulating the controls always gets PIC but the other only if he accepts the legal role of PIC, otherwise he is SIC. That is why you see airline cockpits with the first officer flying the plane and the captain assisting. The captain is the legal PIC but the FO gets PIC for flying the plane.

You could certainly shoot an approach in a non-IFR legal airplane. You are not flying IFR, your plane does not need to be legal for IFR. You are flying VFR.. Ex, an ILS requires an ADF for the LOM but you don't have one. You could still line up and follow the glideslope down under the hood with a safety pilot (just did that a few hours ago).

 

Seat doesn't matter as far as the FAR is concerned. If your guy cannot sit left seat according to club rules then he probably cannot be PIC according to club rules and, if your club rules are like mine, he cannot fly the airplane from the right seat. If your club membership is of any value to you just ask one of the club officers what they will and will not allow. Don't play games with their rules (not saying you are).

 

Since you say you do, I'll assume that you do know the logging rules for this and won't bother repeating themYes. Look at 61.51 for logging instrument time - actual or simulated instrument conditions and not one word about needing an instrument rating. Yes again. The aircraft certification rules for IFR flight apply to, well, IFR, flight. From the airplane's point of view, your flight is VFR*.

I'm sure alfa was using right seat and left seat generically and not suggesting that the flying pilot always has to be on the left and the safety pilot on the right. That's just where they usually are and is not an FAA requirement (certain aircraft excepted - but they will have information in the limitations section about that). There may be club or insurance rules, though.




* yes, I know that you can even fly on an IFR flight plan with an airplane that's not certified for IFR flight so long as you stay out of the clouds, bu no reason to go beyond the question that was asked.

 

Untrue. In an airline cockpit the FO can only log SIC for anytime as an FO. Whether flying or not.

 

Thanks for the help guys. I'll have to look into the rules for my club to make sure I won't be violating any. But it's good to know about this because now I can have the guy I'm flying with in the right seat do some hood flying as well and I can save money by getting a cheap VFR C-150 to do this work in.

 

Also untrue. There is never a SIC in an aircraft that only requires one pilot- there is 1 PIC, or 2 PIC's. Confusing I know, but the only way a safety pilot can log flight time is if he takes PIC responsibility for looking out for traffic.

No one should have SIC time logged in an aircraft that never requires 2 crew.

 

You might have missed my premise "if the aircraft or the conditions under which it is operated requires two pilots". In that case, the pilot flying the airplane always gets PIC (assuming of course he is appropriately rated and has a current medical). The non-flying pilot is SIC if he is not the legal and responsible PIC. No?