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Obstacle Departure Procedures

Old 01-14-2011, 01:01 PM
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Default Obstacle Departure Procedures

I have been taught that we are not supposed to follow an Obstacle Departure Procedure unless the tower is closed. Has anybody else heard this before?

I found this in the AIM 5-2-8 "ODPs are recommended for obstruction clearance and may be flown without ATC clearance unless an alternate departure procedure (SID or radar vector) has been specifically assigned by ATC."

If a heading is assigned during the take off clearance is that a radar vector? What if the tower does not have radar?
What if the t/o clearance is turn left on course?
What if the ODP just says no turn before a certain altitude and you get a radar vector? Do you turn at 400agl or at the ODP altitude?
What if it says left turn fly this heading until 2400ft and the assigned heading is a greater left turn? Does this mean it is a radar vector and it is specifically assigned by ATC and I am not allowed to fly the ODP?

Sorry in advance for so many questions in one post.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:17 PM
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Yes radar vector, because they are coordinating with ATC

If a departure procedure was given to you in your clearance-Comply with it

If a departure clearance was given to you in your clearance but before takeoff they give you assigned heading-Fly heading whenever your accel alt or what company has elected as safe alt to turn, prob 400ft agl

Tower is closed and your getting your clearnace on ground and youve been released and the weather isnt good to where you cant maintain visual of obstacles-Fly the departure

Tower is closed and your getting your clearnace on ground and youve been released and the weather is good to where you CAN maintain visual of obstacles-Accept a heading, and they will state maintain visual of obstacles

ODP usually just for weather purposes, cant maintain visual contact

Depends what plane your can do, if your plane cant clear the obstacles the ODP is necessary.
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:46 PM
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I believe if you want to fly an ODP that is not associated with a regular Departure procedure or SID(i.e. just one written on the bottom of the airport diagram on the Jepp charts) you have to tell ATC that you are going to fly it. It is not something assigned by ATC
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Old 01-14-2011, 01:55 PM
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In what situations am I not allowed to do the ODP is the better question?

Section 5-2-8 of the AIM basically tells me that even if the ODP says RWY HDG until 2500MSL (lets just say that is = 1000AGL) but ATC gives me a heading with the t/o clearance I don't wait until 2500. I turn at the minimum which is 400agl (also in 5-2-8). Assuming we agree that a heading assigned on t/o is a radar vector.

I should also say I am asking and replying in regards to aircraft under an IFR flight plan.
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Old 01-14-2011, 03:23 PM
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Generally speaking, under part 91, published ODP's are optional, ATC assigned departures (including headings) aren't. But under 121 or 135 there may be company policies that come into play. My previous company had guidance in their FOM for IFR departures that were generally more restrictive than the FAR/AIM - basically, if we weren't assigned a named SID or given a departure heading (like from an uncontrolled field) then we had to fly the ODP regardless of the current wx conditions.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dash8widget View Post
Generally speaking, under part 91, published ODP's are optional, ATC assigned departures (including headings) aren't. But under 121 or 135 there may be company policies that come into play. My previous company had guidance in their FOM for IFR departures that were generally more restrictive than the FAR/AIM - basically, if we weren't assigned a named SID or given a departure heading (like from an uncontrolled field) then we had to fly the ODP regardless of the current wx conditions.
What he said.

Your companies FOM most likely has guidance on what you are supposed to do.

Something like this:
If IMC or unable to maintain visual terrain clearance and no other ATC departure instruction received, the ODP must be flown. (ATC is taking responsibility for terrain clearance when issuing the vector)

VMC and able to maintain terrain clearance visually it is optional unless company specifically requires it for that airport.
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Old 01-14-2011, 06:35 PM
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Its my understanding after looking into this question years ago, that if an ODP is published for that runway, you climb until reaching that published altitude before making a turn issued by tower. The reason being is that tower does not have "radar contact" on you yet. Until you are given over to an approach/departure controller who says "radar contact," or after reaching the published ODP altitude, only then can you turn to the assigned heading given by ATC. This is a very good question and I could potentially be wrong, but hopefully someone on here has a definitive answer for us.
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:02 PM
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Like others have said, the company procedures are probably best to follow if you got them...I will add this also

I have heard guys getting calls from the FAA about not leaving the pattern correctly when in this example Tower was closed...just departing (VFR with a IFR Clearance from APP or CTR above) and at my company (121) at 400AGL you can turn on course ...Our FOM says if we can maintain our own terrain clearance it is pilots discretion on whether or not we follow it based off what people have mentioned already. However we always tell ATC if we can maintain our own terrain clearance in the climb just to make sure there is no confusion on what ATC expects us to do.

So even with nobody in the pattern someone on the ground called and complained because a pilot decided to turn right at 400ft and not do the traffic pattern, the FAA did not like that.

Deciding whether or not to follow it isn't really cut and dry like we all hope it is...There are many factors that come into play and its almost a case by case scenario for this one. Also people are quoting stuff they are reading in the AIM...remember that is for guidance only, its not a reg...yes the FAA can still get mad at you for doing something different then what is in there but still not a violation....

Hope this helps!
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Old 01-14-2011, 07:14 PM
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The only thing i can think of in terms of people calling on the ground is due to a noise abatement procedure that probably wasn't followed...ODP's are flown in lieu of other clearance and departing VFR, or you can reference your company's 10-10 pages which more than likely spell out what to do..ODP, in my opinion, is the last thing flown and referenced only when the tower is closed and you need some form of guidance in the transition from vfr-ifr....
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:20 AM
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Fly the ODP unless tower gives you a different clearance. We had a crew get in trouble in TYS, a while back. Taking off 5R the ODP says something like "no turns east before 4000'. Tower told the guys "turn right 090 after departure, cleared for takeoff". They should have turned at 400' but didn't until 4000' and got in trouble. If you want to do the ODP instead of tower clearance you have to let the tower know so they can clear you for that procedure. Great question for discussion!
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