sellener

Id like to get an opinion of the proper procedure for runup and taxi clearance.

This situation occured at slow class C airport.

I usually plan on doing my runup short of the departure runway if it slow and no one behind me. If its busy Ill use the huge expance of pavement off the taxi way opposite the departure runway. (runup area,holding area...)


I get the "runway 28L taxi via C B"

I get to the end of the taxiway and there is a GA aircraft in the runup area as well as a regional jet being given taxi clearance to 28L as well.

I figure I will use the runup area given the regional jet coming this way as well as the other GA aircraft doing his runup.

To get to the runup area and position myself next to the other GA aircraft requires me to cross two pavement markings.

First one, (taxi way edge markings indicating opposite side is pavement used by aircraft)

----------------
----------------


second one,(indicating barrier between movement and non-movement sides)
---------------------------
________________________


Myself and other GA aircraft crossed both of these markings into runup area.


Runup done.

Now, Im confused.


I believe myself to be in a non-movement area and am uncertain about entering the movement area again without confirming with ATC. Other aircraft exits the runup area and holds short 28L as he sees RJ coming down taxi way with no call to tower/ground (both combined) Calls ready for takeoff and ATC clears him for takeoff.

With RJ getting closer on taxiway, I really dont want to cause an issue and call ATC with "request continue taxi 28L from runup area."

I wait.....
RJ gets closer and passes me on taxiway and holds short 28L and is subsequently cleared for takeoff.

ATC comes back and tells me I dont need to ask for that and to hold short 28L.

I hold short 28L and time two minutes for wake turbulance. Right as the clock hits two minutes and im going to call ready for departure, ATC comes on and wants to know if im ready yet and I say yes.

They come back with "that is a call you need to make. Cleared for takeoff."

I depart.

sellener

Did I violate my intial taxi clearance by exiting taxiway to runup area?

Did my intial taxi clearance allow me to cross back over to movement area?

Is this ATC and pilots being lazy?

Am I ill-informed :0)

sellener

When I finally got short of 28L and wanted to wait two minutes after the RJ, does ATC expect me to tell them that. I just figured Id wait and call ready when I was ready? No traffic in line behind me.

sellener

I can imagine if I called "xxx holding short 28L" and then they said cleared for takeoff, and I came back with "im going to wait two minutes" they would be annoyed. Or perhaps they were expecting me to say "xxx holding short 28L" and they would tell me to wait two minutes.

Cubdriver

No.

Yes.

You are referring to which item?

You are expected to know how far you are cleared to taxi when you receive a clearance, so yes if you want to be fussy about it I would say you are a little rusty on taxi procedures, but at least you had the good sense to ask ATC what to do. AOPA has free computer-based modules on its website, we all need a review every now and then.

AOPA Interactive Courses

No. They know you get two minutes, it's their job to know. However if they fail to do it for some reason (brain lapse) then you should demand the time. It's your right.

One thing I do is use the airplane itself as a huge flag telling tower what I want to do. That gives them two signs rather than one. So I will wait until the last few seconds before I am ready to take off to move the airplane to the hold short line at the runway, for example. This way they see my airplane and they hear my call at the same time and put two and two together- this airplane goes with this radio call.

You do not need to ask for the time delay. You can avoid the whole issue by waiting a little while to get to the hold short as stated above. Or you can just ask for the time if they forgot for some reason.

sellener

I know its kinda picky, but how would u know the initial clearance included the option to leave the movement area and then come back? Where is that stated or infered from in the regs?

galaxy flyer

Be reasonable here--the clearance was to hold short, do so. Conduct your "run up" checks, mags and prop, and then call ready for departure with tower. It is really that simple, until you call "ready", they don't care unless you spend an inordinate amount of time checking the mags and prop. You might be able to check them on the taxi out, if you have o go uphill.

GF

Patuxent78

It's assumed that you will be going through your run-up at the additional pavement adjacent to the hold-short area. This is why that area is there. If you taxi to the hold-short which includes a run-up area then you've obeyed the taxi clearance that was given to you. If you call up, "I'd like to spend a minute going through my pre-take-off checklist, the controller will simply scratch his head and think to himself, ok....what's your point? No ****! At least most would. Most GA traffic do their run-ups, most none-GA do not however and simply taxi directly to the hold-short and request clearance to take-off. If that's the case, let them pass, give it a second to let the turbulence pass and keep your distance but line up behind the ERJ, you can stay on ground till the your #1 for take-off or wait on tower, either way.
Once ERJ has taken off, call tower, ready for departure and it may be smart just to mention that you are taking a minute to wait for the wake turb to subside, just don't really need to wait too long but at least he's tracking why your ready but still sitting.
In the end, your the PIC, I've seen someone park behind an ERJ while driving a C172R because he was told to taxi to hold-short behind the ERJ, but instead of keeping his distance he was about the same distance he would normally be behind a GA. Once that ERJ ran his engine up, prior to crossing the hold-short that thrust blew the Cessna half a field away. Everyone was fine inside but the aircraft was totaled. So, if you want to sit in the run-up area just a little longer and wait for the ERJ to leave, it's your call and you don't gave to gain permission to do it.

sinkrate3278

I totally agree with everything above. As far as the phraseology goes, I think the safe thing to do when there are other aircraft around you is to just stay put and call "ready for departure, in sequence."

ATC should then give you your sequence and will tell you when you can pull up to the hold short line.

This way you won't aggressively cut into a jet taxiing straight for the hold short line or leave the run-up area at the same time as another GA aircraft.

Be safe out there!

PearlPilot

When I depart out of a towered airport, I have an airport diagram handy and intimately familiarize with it. Some airports can be traps in that there might be crossing runways that can inadvertently cause you to pass the 2 solid lines. It might as well end up you having to call the tower, no good.
If you have to do a full runup, just pull in to the runup area, position aircraft into the wind, be considerate about other GA aircraft and maintain a safe distance from them. Be aware of your prop blast and position the ship accordingly. Do not spend a great deal of time looking in, make sure your aircraft isn't moving.
Also if you are flying solo, don't ever try to write down a departure clearance while taxiing. It is a big pet peeve of mine when ground control starts going, "Cessna xxx, departure frequency xxx, squawk xxx, etc." It's simply not safe to do so. Just tell them to standby and advise that you will let them know when you are ready to copy your clearance. Be safe, and like Cub said, a great way to review those procedures is through AOPA.