SilkySmooth

So the clearance controller schooled me today on the importance of not contacting him any further once he's given a release time. Apparently, according to him, if a pilot requests information on further delays once a release time has been given, the controller in obligated (by law) to call for another release time. Unfortunately for us, my naivete added 30 minutes to our original release time. Have any of you experienced this.. All you ATC types, please enlighten me.

The Farang

My take on it... From experience not FACT. Any ATC'er want to chime in?

I believe the release time is something you get every time you depart (to a large airport). The local controller gets it from the center to meet metering times. Usually a 5 minute window.

EDC Time (issued when their are delays) is a estimated time of when you might be released. They are updated every so often (30 minutes maybe). EDC's are not hard time and change. I've had controllers says they can call in 30 minutes to get an update. We have a system where we get updated EDC times over our ACARS. We usually get this before the controller says anything. Once we query them, they check on it and then we are released.

I don't think you asking him caused you a delay, you were going to get that delay next time he checked on your EDC.

rickair7777

He would have had to call before actually releasing you anyway...you would have gotten the further delay at that time anyway, while holding short.

winglet

First; don't confuse EDCT times with your local traffic departure restrictions; (release, clearance void, or hold for release).

Controllers, correct me if I'm wrong.

An (Expect Departure Clearance Time) is issued by the (ATCSSC) Air Traffic Control System Command Center. It's automatically sent from the Traffic Management System (TMS) computer to the National Airspace Sytem (NAS) computer as a CT message and displayed on the flight progress strip during high traffic flow.

Some items of common confusion regarding EDCT:

Unlike local restrictions, once a pilot operating under an EDCT requests taxi then they are released. It is now the controller and pilot's responsibility to make the EDCT time plus or minus 5 minutes.

A takeoff clearance cannot be cancelled due to a new or revised EDCT time popping up during the takeoff roll.

An aircraft cannot be released under a Ground Stop (GS).

There is a mandatory "Trust and Verify" procedure if someone asks a question about an EDCT time. This may be what the controller was referring to. There is a requirement for the controller to verify the EDCT if there is a disagreement but not a simple enquiry. It is a pain for them to verify the EDCT time every time someone asks if the EDCT time has changed. They should let you know as soon as it changes if they are sharp.

Find your local TRACON phone number and ask for the Traffic Management Specialist (TMS) for a better explanation.

I suspect that your EDCT time changed as you were asking the controller about it...

Take Care...

Winglet

TonyC

You can view your EDCT if you have internet access:

EDCT LOOKUP


You can also look at the ATC System Command Center's Advisory Database:

Advisory Database Form


I don't think the controller you talked to had the power or authority to punish you with a later EDCT -- but he might have taken some delight in the fact that your asking him to do a little work was followed by the announcement of a further delay to you.






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rickair7777

It usually works if you tell them you will monitor the clearance freq, and ask them to call you if a change pops up.

ToiletDuck

Maybe I'm reading things wrong but asking for a simple update doesn't automatically get you a later time. Several times in EWR when fuel's getting low this would have been a huge issue to watch our time get "reset". Actually sometimes I've asked for updates and they say "looks like traffic is starting to move again we'll probably be bumping your time up here in a few min. just monitor this freq".

onetogo

Have heard cell phone numbers given over the radio so the crew doesn't have to sit and wait in the airplane. Controllers seemed perfectly OK with it (talking corporate flying)

TonyWilliams

What airport / date / time / frequency? It sounds like grossly inexperienced ATC, of which there are now thousands that have been hired in the past couple years (on a B scale).

seafeye

Lets say you have a 9am departure scheduled by your company.
You call up ATC either on the clearence delivery freq or through a radio service station. Should be the same either way. They will ask you for your EDT. (Estimated Time of Departure). Most F/O's i fly with will say 9am. Which is usually too early. That is just the time that our company wants us to push. So add a couple of minutes to give yourself time to safely get the airplane ready for departure. New F/O maybe add 20 min. Normally i like to add 10. Of course the gate agents can slow things down. Or wheelchairs etc....
So you tell ATC 9:10am. They call the center and they look for a slot to put you in. Ding Ding Ding there is one at 9:25. So they relay that info to you. You should have both engine running and ready to takeoff at that time.
The main problem i see is that people will get a release time too close to pushback time and can't get out. Then you have to get another release time. This ****es off ATC cause they have to make another phone call.
This isn't a completly correct example of how things work but consider it the pilots guide to release times.