f16jetmech

So an instructor coworker of mine made a big mistake and solo'd a student WITHOUT endorsing the medical. Long story but the student got a medical in scotland, had it on the way in the mail or something like that, but come to find out the medical is NOT a student medical. Its a first class without the student portion, so nowhere to put the instructor endorsement for solo flight. So the student now has to go get a NEW medical. So the medical date will be POST solo flight, obviously not good. My opinion is the instructor needs to fess up to the FAA ASAP and say hey i screwed up what do i need to do and go from there. Any other words of advise? What will punishment be do you think? Also, this is a good 141 school that tries to do things right... think there will be any punishment from FAA to the school?

Please, i say again PLEASE, refrain from any flaming comments towards the instructor. Good guy and a good instructor with an honest mistake. Constructive posting only please

ToBeOrNotToBe

I would have the flight school fess up to the FAA and show they have a policy in place to prevent this from happening in the future. As for the CFI, the best learning experience for anyone is mistakes. I'm sure he has beaten himself up enough over this. Learn and move on. Maybe put a letter in his file to be removed at a predetermined date, if there are no other incidences. This would probably further satisfy the FAA. The whole situation in the grand scheme of things is relatively minor.

fatmike69

I would in NO WAY fess up to the FAA. If you have an altitude/course deviation during your career, would you call the FAA immediately to "fess up"? One is just inviting enforcement actions here. To be honest with you, there is an extremely low chance of this ever being noticed. Have him file the NASA form for protection, and then leave it at that. Stay away from the FAA at all times whenever possible, that's my advice. If he feels absoloutely compelled to self-disclose to the FAA, be sure to consult an aviation attorney first.

f16jetmech

Don't know if that's the best policy especially knowing WHEN we get inspected (not if), it will be found.

ATLCFI

The school should disenroll the student from 141 and complete him 61. Most 141 programs require the medical/student pilot certificate before the student begins the flight training phase.

block30

I completely agree. This is not the first that person has ever violated a FAR, nor will it be the last. Same goes for any pilot. If you accidentally speed on the way home, do you call the cops? If you accidentally walk out of a restaurant without paying do you call the cops on yourself? No, you go back, apologize and pay. If you get off altitude by over 300 feet and tgen immediately correct, do you turn yourself in to the FSDO? I know a pilot that got off by over 300 feet, corrected, but told on themselves to ATC. Wrong move. I could go on..but if you like violations and kicking a hornets nest, go ahead. It sorta reminds me of the drunk captain interview question.....are you gonna throw people under the bus and get violatuons started, or can you use your head and make the safe choice that protects others careers? This is freaky stuff man. I would not want to fly with someone who goes to the feds right away. That is not to say don't use CRM, speak up for safety, and have postflight debriefs, etc. But now we are talking about unleashing the legal hounds here! Be thinking damn hard before getting the law involved. I say this for everyone's good.

fatmike69

That's what the NASA form is for. You mentioned that this is a 141 flight school, do you have an in-house ASAP program? If so, even better, use it! That's a big reason why we have these tools available to us (NASA/ASAP). It will pretty much guaruntee a non-punitive result if an investigation is ever conducted (of course this comes with limitations, but as a CFI he should know what these are). As a captain at a 121 carrier, I can't tell you how many times I've seen "paperwork errors" that could probably warrant FAA action, that are effectively handled in-house. Honestly this is a pretty minor one.

I understand your viewpoint, but you really are taking your chances calling an enforcement agency to confess a violation. You might get an understanding fed that will recommend no action or some simple remedial training, or you might get one that recommends certificate action or fines. This is just my .2.....

f16jetmech

Again I want to make this clear that this is a 141 school that is inspected regularly by the Dallas FSDO. This is an endorsement that is put on final paperwork of a checkride. It's not like you put 2.0 hood when it should have been 1.5. This is a paperwork issue that can't be reversed. Are you suggesting forging his logbook? A federal document? I'm a bit confused on just brushing it aside.

Also an update, the school has decided that they will come forward if he doesn't. It could be their 141 ticket when the Feds find out

f16jetmech

Unless you go back into his logbook and change the date that he solo'd, the solo date and medical date won't match up. How do you suggest to fix it in house? (no sarcasm, honestly asking)

fatmike69

Of course I'm not suggesting forging a logbook, that would completely invalidate the entire NASA/ASAP immunity protection. By handling it "in-house" I meant that not everything needs to be reported to the Feds, including the flight school needing to report it. But now if the 141 school says that they are going to self disclose if he doesn't, that is a big time game changer. I still stand by original advice though, only fill out the NASA/ASAP form and leave it at that. The FAA will view that as "compliance" and "self-disclosure". Let the 141 school disclose it to the FAA. They have many more resources (legal departement, etc.) and will know how to disclose it to the FAA in the least incriminating way as possible. It's all about CYA and liability at this point, and trust me, your school has a major vested interest in this.