CapnNance

So I am preparing to take my Commercial ASEL and CFI in a few weeks and I have consitantly struggled with my Power-off 180's, they are my white whale. Regardless of constant practice and being able to recognize what I am doing wrong each time I still end up coming in high . Anyone have some pointers that could help me hammer this down.

Thanks folks!

chrisreedrules

Maybe you are waiting too long to dump some flaps in? Maybe you need to slip it in just a bit if you are too high? Maybe you aren't extending your downwind enough? Its hard to say. If you know what you are doing wrong then chair fly the right procedure until you are sick of it and can do it in your sleep. What is it that seems to be troublesome to you? I have the opposite problem sometimes... One of the aircraft I fly literally drops like a rock when performing power-off 180s so you have to immediately throw the mixture are prop full forward and get you gear down while making a turn towards the runway or you will never make it. You end up being about 500ft on base whch is already cutting it close.

yimke

haha.. Archer II I would imagine? I hated 180s in that.

As for the poster, what aircraft is it? I have flown a couple complex singles for commercial single training and can give you some pointers.

JamesNoBrakes

Unfortunately, this is something that should be taught to private pilots from day one. What if you have an engine failure? You HAVE to be able to do a power off 180. It should therefore be a basic skill and not wait until commercial to suddenly be important. Remember the point is not to fly best glide speed and go as far as you can, the point is to land accurately. This requires you to do certain things, think about it in a technical way think about how far and low you should go, come up with a procedure that is reliable and adaptable to conditions. If your CFI reverts to "guessing" and can't explain it well, find another CFI and let his boss know. There will always be some judgement and skill involved, but outright guessing and WAG stuff is what you should use to fine-tune it, not approach it from the basic level.

chrisreedrules

Micco-SP20 with the IO360. Basically a severely underpowered aircraft that is a real trickster to learn how to fly. Complex/Tailwheel all in one. It gets interesting to say the least.

moihoang

I does depends on which aircraft you are flying. I flew the Arrow I, where the hershey bars drop like a brick. My advice is that as soon as you know for sure you can hit your aiming point, not your intended landing spot, start putting flaps in. Sounds like in your case, being high, get full flaps in and that should help, only down side to that is with full flaps early is that you aren't able to stretch that glide if you end up short of your aiming point. Don't give up, practice, practice, practice.

USMCFLYR

You need to bracket.
If you've been high numerous times, then do something much different to end up low. You'll eventually build a proper sight picture using a variety groud and airplane reference points and know instantly whether you are high or low because you Have seen both and you'll know the proper correction to make. Keep doing the same thing over and over with the same results is negative training in my opinion.
This obviously only works if flying the same type of airplane with similar performance (or lack thereof).
Disclaimer: I am not a CFI

USMCFLYR

HA717

I remember when I did my comm/single I was all kinds of nervous for the power off 180 especially since it was my last maneuver before sign off. I did it in a 73' Arrow in summer desert heat. My best advice is turn base as soon as that power is idle. Grab a wind check on downwind so you can visualize what that wind is doing. I did mine at 12G17K and a 30 degree left crosswind. Soon as I turned base I'd go first notch of flaps in....figure if I'm high or low and feel if I need more flaps. I always liked being a bit high on the roll out because I knew if I pitched to bleed the speed off that plane would drop like a rock. I even would wait till I was absolutley sure I had my aiming point nailed before going props full. Even that small amount of prop angle can add drag.

I always felt this should have been covered in private training because it's a maneuver that once you can execute it makes you more at ease with the airplane.

On check ride I probably had a 60 degree right bank turning base to final to bleed that speed off. I pulled it out of my ass and greased that landing on my touchdown point (2nd center line) and had a gorgeous flare. Even the DPE went "whoa, **** nice". Talk about a confidence builder.

Good luck man! Don't over think this one.

bbrunton

Aim for a point short of your desired spot... Try 500 feet to allow for some float. If that does not work, adjust the distance. I like to use the start of the 1000ft markers as my desired touchdown point so I don't land in the weeds.

Come in high and SLIP... Agressively if needed.. Don't use flaps at all, once you do you are stuck with them.. A good slip can be adjusted and take you right to your spot to start your flare.

Remember.. your best glide speed is for still air. In a headwind speed up for better penetration against the headwind.

If you are getting low, dive for ground effect to stretch your glide. That is why you should use the 1000ft markers as your touchdown point. Gives you runway to land short on if you come up short and a clear area to get ground effect.

If you have a constant speed prop, try pulling the prop RPM to minimum. That will reduce your drag and extend your glide. If you are really high you can add drag by pushing the prop up... A slip is better for fine adjustments.

Don't forget to clear your engine. That can help stretch your glide.

Remember, the standards are for good flying conditions. If it is bumpy or gusty, you get some extra leeway.


I hope this helps

Good Luck!

Bill

zondaracer

I also keep an eye on altitude throughout the maneuver. If you have turned 90º through the maneuver, you should have lost half of your altitude. Don't rush the maneuver. Often times rushing leads to turning too quickly before you have lost enough altitude, leading to being high.