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Loans or No Loans?

Old 03-07-2013, 06:49 PM
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Hey! So I just turned 20, I have a private pilot license, and I am a Junior in college (skipped a grade back in middle school). I'm looking to graduate next year around this time. My goal is to be an airline pilot, and so when I graduate I want to attend flight school. I'd like to hear some recommendations regarding loans. Would it be better to delay flight training (and the start of my airline career) and save up the remaining 30-40k I will need for training? Or would it be advisable to take out the necessary loans and get through the training as early as possible so that I can start CFI'ing and building hours? I hear that the pay for CFI's is low and would make paying off loans difficult. However, getting a later start might be bad as well. Any input would be great to hear. Thanks!
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:35 PM
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No loans if at all possible. The road to become a major airline pilot is a long and hard one, and realistically many people won't make it anymore, because there are less of them then the rest of the commercial pilot jobs out there, so according to the numbers it's not possible that everyone will make it there. So that said, it's going to make little difference to put it off for a few years, the couple years that you miss out on "making money" at 30K/yr at a regional airline will be more than offset by not having to make loan and interest payments. Realize that for say a 70K loan, you REALLY end up paying over 100K, because of the interest. That extra 40K or whatever of interest is just free money you are giving up to someone. Think of having tens of thousands MORE money because you didn't get a loan and didn't have to pay anything back or make payments.

Loans aren't inherently bad, but realize that you are trying to fund something today based on projected future earnings. That is a dangerous place to go if you don't have a current job that can pay those bills. It's easy when you got a job and are buying a car, but if you don't have that job, would you go out and buy a car? They wouldn't even sell one to you, because you'd fail the criteria for loan qualification. So, it's an area to be very cautious.
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:52 PM
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Never get in debt. Don't use a credit card unless you can fully pay every payment. The airline career is NOT worth piling on debt. Now I am NOT an airline pilot, but this is how I made it debt free and what I recommend. JamesNoBreaks is right, there is no rush so take your time.

First, pay every for every flight upfront and work towards your instrument.

By the time you have your instrument, you should have around 150 hours.

Now find a flight club with a sport airplane (Cub, Champ, CTLS etc.)

At 150 hours and some time in type, you are now eligible to get your sport pilot CFI. Get some students and get really involved in aviation community around you. Get your club to do a special intro flight deal. Submit a deal to Groupon to sell intro flights. Do whatever you can to sign people up and work your way to 250 hours.

Then get your COMM/CFI and go from there.

Good luck
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:35 PM
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My recommendation is run like the wind away from this career. If you are still dead set on putting yourself and future family through the tortures of airline life do it at a slower pace and stay out of debt. If you don't have the flight training loans to pay off you don't feel as enslaved to this profession and it is easier to get out when you realize what a mistake you have made.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.
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Old 03-08-2013, 12:59 AM
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Don't become an airline pilot unless it is your dream to move overseas. The job market here is terrible. Airline pilot wages are similar to that of preschool teachers. The seniority system and unions have ruined the airline pilot job in America. Overseas you can get a job and not have to wait a few years to get paid well nor will you have to sit on reserve forever. Here, If you get furloughed you will start back under 50k again in most cases, or under 30k if you are at the regional level.. When I say overseas I'm not talking about Europe, or Australia. I'm talking about the Middle East. To answer your question, no loans. Try to get a good paying job to fund your training. Maybe you'll realize the job you work to help pay for your airline career is actually a better career.
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:47 AM
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No loans, ever.
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Old 03-08-2013, 05:51 AM
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Many of us got a "loan" from the military: pilot training and a reasonable salary in return for several years of service. If you don't have (and don't want to borrow) large sums of money, it's worth considering. If I were starting out today, I would do the same thing again, but there's no guarantee it would work out as well this time. Many things have changed, and there is a lot of good information available on APC's "military" forum. Good Luck!
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:15 AM
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Thank you all for the suggestions. I am determined to be an airline pilot. For me, money is no object, I just want my desk to be a cockpit. As far as route, military is not really an option for several reasons, so my only option is "pay my way." I have a friend who would let me be part of a small time builder, 100-150 hours a year PIC where I would only need an instrument and ASEL commercial. This only costs about 12k and with my current savings would put me in minimal debt. So I'm looking at two "no debt" scenarios. In the first: I save for 2-3 years and then do all my flight training at once and move on to CFI'ing full time. In the second: I do my instrument and ASEL commercial right away, deplete my funds, then work on saving while still building some flight time for 2-3 years; after which, I would finish training through CFI and then CFI full time. I guess the main difference between these two is that in the first I get to do all my training at once (is this better?). In the second, I split training into two pieces but I have more flight time (much of it PIC) once I complete CFI training. Any further thoughts would be great! Thanks.
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingPilot View Post
For me, money is no object, I just want my desk to be a cockpit.
Re-read that and realized I mis-spoke. I meant to say that future salary is not a major factor; I'm not doing it so that I can make a 6 figure salary.
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:11 PM
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There are a few ways to do it right in this industry. Using loans to finance training is a really bad way to get your career started. I can't stress enough how incredibly bad student loans are to a person wanting to make a living as an airline pilot. Please don't hear me as some negative bitter pilot. If you finance anything over 30K for your pilot training, you will most likely find yourself never able to get ahead. In other words you will enjoy life getting gang banged by your employer and your student loan company.

The purpose for investing is to generate a profit once you have returned on your investment. This profit should be generated in a reasonable amount of time. Any investor would tell you this is a very important rule of thumb.

Financing your pilot training is a horrible investment. Trust me, after you dedicate your life to getting a good training, applying it and living the life of an airline pilot for a few years you will wonder why you ever said you would do it for little compensation. Six figures isn't being greedy. It's a reasonable compensation for the skills and professionalism you have cultivated into yourself and provide for your employer.

Don't sell yourself short. This is what made investing in the career the worst possible investment.
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