rickair7777

Still better than a 190-hour wet commercial from a puppy mill.

rcfd13

That may be true but it's still a 4 year aviation degree program. I hate that the new exemption is encouraging people to get aviation degrees. They're such a massive waste of money.

It's funny to me that the government thinks that a K-State aviation major with 1000 hours is somehow safer than an MIT graduate with an engineering degree who has 1400 hours.

Cubdriver

In theory I think the idea is someone with a scattered background in flying may have a ton of flying hours but their flight time might not be targeted at any particular type of flying. Programs such as K-State are quality programs aimed at making you ready to do one thing, which is fly transport aircraft safely. It is a strong focus and while I agree they come out knowing little about anything else, it deserves some special credit.

Someone made the point that exemptions like this one combined with the new 1500 hour rule will make ad hoc training much less attractive to beginning pilots in the future. Our pilot system will become much more like the European system where because of the high costs involved new pilots must choose one type of flying from day one, and only do that. I think it is a shame not so much because of anything evil about it, just that the kind of build-your-own-flying resume with broad experience doing lots of kinds of flying will become pretty rare over time. I thought that was a great thing about American flight training, and it may be a thing of the past.

rickair7777

That kind of ad-hoc background (combined with the attention-to-detail military culture common at US airlines) is why US airline pilots are safer than any others IMO. We have a lot of people who are good sticks with real-world experience that European and Asian pilots don't have and will probably never get.

Low time pilots who are trained from day one for transport category operations tend to be good at programming the box and doing ILS approaches with a 5,700 NM straight-in final. Actually flying airplanes, not so much.

EMAW

I do see what you are saying, but leaving with a Bachelor's in Airway Science is not that much different than any other degree. For example, if you graduate a civil engineering program, then decide you want to be a lawyer, doctor, etc; you are going to have to go back to school. Granted you have to be committed to aviation and willing to do anything to make it work, but I would expect that if you spend 4 years or more studying a field in college, you'd be committed to that field. There's always a chance it won't work out. While I was instructing I went ahead and finished an Associates degree in Business, but it was more to delay loan repayment. I have been fortunate enough to never second guess what I want to do.

rcfd13

Hopefully you'll be lucky enough to never lose your medical. I have an aviation degree and my fear isn't second guessing that I want to be in aviation. I fear losing my medical because at that point I'd be a 40 year old guy with essentially nothing more than a high school diploma. My second issue with my aviation degree is the fact that I see other people making extra money on the side with their computer science and engineering or mechanic degrees while I'm not employable outside of aviation. I could easily hold a second job if I had other skills or qualifications.

I have an aviation degree. I loved the program I trained in and have a ton of respect for it. I'm still telling people that it's a terrible idea and a waste of money. I wish I had done it differently. That should say a lot.

Flying J

That was fast. I thought for sure it would take a few more months for them to get all the details sorted out.

Lab Rat

Accredited or not, university aviation programs (regardless of how good they are) are no substitute for experience.

hypoxia

I agree! The fact is, a 1000 to 1500 hour pilot going for an ATP or R-ATP still has to pass a "captains checkride" for the issuance of a type rating in a high performance jet. In the AQP training environment both crewmembers work together to get through the type rating and checkride. It is not a single pilot airplane nor a single pilot checkride. I've heard of both crewmembers failing! If I were going through upgrade and my FO was a 1000 hour P.O.S. Katana wonder, I would demand a support first officer for my checkride! There is way too much on the line to botch up your ride! Does AQP even allow for support captains or FO's for the checkride or are you stuck as a team?

rcfd13

My airline pairs new hires with captain upgrades for both ground school and sim. I'm assuming most do the same? Be glad that your sim partner is now required to have 1000/1500 hours rather than the 300-600 they were able to be hired at in the past.

Also if you go into upgrade training with that kind of attitude I guarantee it won't be the 1000 new hire who causes you to fail. When I was a new hire my captain sim partner helped me a ton and we both worked together between sim sessions to make sure we had things down. If your attitude is "I'm better than this 1,000 hour pilot and I don't care if he fails" you're going to go down with them. Be a mentor and a good captain and you'll do fine just like thousands before you have.