Yoda2

All good info so far; and happy to see you are thinking ahead. An item, from your post that really sticks out is the runway departing from. I always make this a point of emphasis with students. Where it usually goes bad is when the departure runway is changed at the last minute and the initial departure instructions are not modified in accordance (or simply that the correct plan was not followed...) Sometimes the clearance will be the same regardless of runway departing, but you need to know. These type accidents can usually be traced to pressure of some sort like being in a hurry, running late, Etc. I guess some tips would be: Try not to get sucked into the "I'll pick up the clearance in the air" deal. Try to depart these fields in VFR Wx conditions if possible, though on IFR clearance. (there are several benefits to that), Carry a hand held GPS, and cell phone. Don't ever bust a void time, EVER! There are other little tricks and tips (that are safe and legal) That you will pick up from operational experience as well. Also when arriving at "uncontrolled/Unicom/CTAF" fields, in VFR conditions on an IFR Flt Plan; many IFR pilots will sometimes make position reports based on Instrument fixes, which most of the VFR pilots know little to nothing about, so they have no idea where you are... (If they even have a radio) In addition to studying the accident Cub noted; I would also recommend especially for your IFR students (NTSB LAX91FA132) Reba Mc Enties accident Mar 16, 1991 departing San Diego... PS this type accident has happened again departing San Diego since Reba's Hawker went in...

Fly Boy Knight

+1 to this. While departing "VFR" in 1SM and C.O.C is legal, remember that it must be done within reason and blasting off into extremely marginal VFR with no knowledge of the local area / where you can pickup ATC / where you can fly to in case something happens on departure and you need to turn back is NEVER smart and at the very least "careless or reckless."

When you start doing this often, you will learn your personal minimums and, especially if you fly out of the same airport often, learn when it is appropriate to blast off and when it is appropriate to say no. As a former CFI, I used to LOVE the days when visibility dropped to 1-3SM in FG because it gave me a chance to show my students what 1-3SM actually looked like and after cruising around the FL shoreline in 1.5 SM vis and needing special VFR to get back into our home airport, most of them said they'd never wanna do it again and couldn't believe it was legal in the first place.

+1 as well for not giving position reports based on IFR fixes/terminology as well. When in doubt, just say what you are gonna do in normal words. I'd rather someone say, "___Traffic, N34567 overtop of the field 2,500 ft. Will be proceeding from overhead SW bound at ____ ft, then turning back inbound for about a 7 mile straight in approach to rwy ___. Practice Instrument Approach, ____traffic" vs someone saying, "____ traffic, N34567 over the VOR at 2500, proceeding outbound, full VOR approach rwy ___, ___traffic" anytime. Even if I do know exactly what your transmission means, others might not. If there is a lot of traffic in the pattern/area, shorten it and stay away from pattern altitude until necessary (PT back inbound).

(Usual APC side note: Don't say "Any traffic in the area please advise" either)

Interesting. I had never heard of this accident until about 2 years ago and lately, I've been hearing a lot about it. Sketchy / scary stuff. Accidents like this aught to be shouted from the rooftops so everyone knows about them because as you said before, here was a 100% legal flight that flew into a hillside 100% legally under "VFR." It is probably questionable whether they had min VFR visibility but, as I said before, no one can argue what the pilot says it is because "flight visibility" can only be spotted by people actually in flight.

Cubdriver

Try this link (half way down)-

Beech 400 crash Rome GA

fatmike69

A clearance from a VFR airport most certainly will not include an initial heading as this would imply terrain separation responsibility is assumed from ATC (unless of course they have radar and authorization to provide radar vectored departures). You might be cleared direct to a fix but with the stipulation that the pilot can maintain their own terrain clearance (a direct clearance on departure also implies course guidance, and, terrain separation from ATC). Most likely you will be cleared "via". The term via is used to identify the first waypoint on the cleared route, without implying course guidance or ATC assumed terrain clearance. If this is the case, ATC doesn't care how you get to your first fix (either ODP or however else you choose) but the terrain clearance onus is on you. With part 91 this is perfectly legal, you are not required to fly any kind of ODP or published departure for that matter. If there is any question, however, to terrain clearance, then the FAA says it would be "prudent" to fly one.

Cubdriver

I recall departing from an uncontrolled field located close to a Class C airport where the clearance consists of an initial heading and altitude, plus an instruction to call departure when you reach the altitude provided. That is Dead Cow next to ICT, which is of course in the radar environment, causing potential separation issues for traffic coming and going to ICT. I would think it common for uncontrolled airports located close to high-use, controlled fields to have similar departure instructions for the nearby airfields. But I stand corrected for those which do not have radar nearby.

fatmike69

This is true, there are many small airports which enjoy the ability of ATC to provide radar vectored departures, usually through a letter of authorization. I just assumed by the title of the thread "old school" and "boonies" that we were talking non-radar

Yoda2

Here's a couple more items I thought of for the OP... Sometimes, even at a controlled field, you will get instructions to turn R or L after T/O W/no altitude mentioned. In that case and if there is no other information verbal or textual, Etc. You wait until 400' AGL to make your turn (obviously turn before hitting something if you are flying a low performer...) Also an example of a common and time saving short cut... I had a route that had me departing an uncontrolled field, in the Boonies..., next to a mountain. The initial clearance was always to proceed via XXX Navaid, at which I was to climb in a hold. The Navaid was miles from the airfield in the opposite direction from my destination. If VMC prevailed, ATC would simply let me delta over the field until reaching a safe altitude to cross the mountain, then direct to join the airway, traffic permitting. This saved at least ten minutes on that leg. This is done everyday, but ya gotta ask...

Cubdriver

I used to do the same leaving Salida, CO. Field elevation is 7500' and the IFR system only works safely at about 19,000' in that zone, so I would depart VFR and circle to gain altitude nearby, then call ATC for a clearance in the air and join the IFR system. Of course this works only in clear weather for the climb. I also had a Garmin 430, so getting lost was impossible and it was VMC anyway. Backwater Rocky Mountain fields become deadly in bad weather and pilots develop special ways of coping with them, this was more for getting established in the IFR system in good weather and of course would not be safe in low viz conditions.

mozak

Awesome responses, thanks again. I decided to take a look at the thread and it blew up with information.....just an FYI to some of the responses, my original question intended to only apply to airports with an IAP (green guys on the enroute chart). Nowadays you'll see plenty of green airports in the middle of nowhere thanks to GPS approaches, but I guess you'd also have them if there was at least an NDB nearby or on the field, and a VOR feeder route could take you there. These airports would have ODPs if necessary in the TPP, but those ODPs only tell you how to keep clear of the rocks when getting out on a certain runway (i.e. climb to 2,000 before turning right...) what they do not tell you is how to get on course (at least typically). My guess is that ATC has a can list of their departure procedures that they issue in your clearance in order to connect the ODP with the enroute structure, and access to this information can only be found by actually receiving the clearance, or visiting the center/tracon and asking about it.

bruhaha

The few times I've been in the boonies in a /a airplane and we couldn't talk with ATC, non radar and ifr you have to call flight service. Or have an another airborne aircraft relay.

Always a void time.

It was always up to you what to do in class g, the clearances I always got were "upon entering controlled airspace" do something. fly to a navaid or whatever they wanted. Prior to that it's all up to the pilot to get to controlled airspace.

Did you have an example you're looking for?