Hanging out at Flight School for free?
09-18-2014 | 06:33 AM
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,908
Likes: 694
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
As others have said, this is both illegal and standard practice.
You could find a new job.
You could just put up with, if you're getting enough hours...this will prepare you for all the unpaid time you'll spend sitting around at a regional not getting paid, which will drive your effective hourly rate below minimum wage.
You could also document every minute, and then when you leave after a couple years go to the state the labor board to force back-pay. Of course your former employer would probably not give you a good reference, and your career would be off to a bad start.
You could find a new job.
You could just put up with, if you're getting enough hours...this will prepare you for all the unpaid time you'll spend sitting around at a regional not getting paid, which will drive your effective hourly rate below minimum wage.
You could also document every minute, and then when you leave after a couple years go to the state the labor board to force back-pay. Of course your former employer would probably not give you a good reference, and your career would be off to a bad start.
09-18-2014 | 07:20 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 266
Likes: 0
From: FO
I also washed planes for extra cash while I was sitting around. If you are happy with the amount of flight time you are currently getting, stick around. If not, move on.
09-18-2014 | 07:34 AM
#13
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Joined: May 2006
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From: ATP, CFI etc.
The business of teaching flying is truly terrible in this country and it makes little sense at all unless you assign a dollar value to flight hours and consider that the real pay. If it does not even make sense that way, then consider doing something else altogether like aerial surveys or pipeline. If not, stay there and pay your dues cheerfully. It's a raw deal on the financial side no matter what you do in entry-level aviation.
09-18-2014 | 12:45 PM
#14
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Joined: Jun 2014
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In today's market there should be no reason to agree to terms like this. It's the flight instructor equivalent of sitting airport reserve. It's also a sign that the school really isn't attracting any students.
You're hoping that some guy walks thru the door, asks for a demo flight, and then agrees to commit to flight training and become your student.
9/10 of people who walk thru the door are there to just ask questions.
The 1/10 who actually does a demo flight, 9/10 of those will just do the 0.5 hour demo flight and that's it. Find a school that assigns you students.
You're hoping that some guy walks thru the door, asks for a demo flight, and then agrees to commit to flight training and become your student.
9/10 of people who walk thru the door are there to just ask questions.
The 1/10 who actually does a demo flight, 9/10 of those will just do the 0.5 hour demo flight and that's it. Find a school that assigns you students.
09-18-2014 | 12:54 PM
#15
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Hey guys question for you. I'm at a new flight school.. Well new to me. And they only pay me when I'm with a student.
But they want me to hang out at the school all day and be there on a set scheule even if no one is scheduled. Answer phones, show people airplanes, take out the garbage!? Wth?
And I don't get paid for this? Number one I think its illegal. Number two I think its ridiculous. You want me there you have to pay me. Am I missing something?
Is this a common accepted practice?
But they want me to hang out at the school all day and be there on a set scheule even if no one is scheduled. Answer phones, show people airplanes, take out the garbage!? Wth?
And I don't get paid for this? Number one I think its illegal. Number two I think its ridiculous. You want me there you have to pay me. Am I missing something?
Is this a common accepted practice?
09-18-2014 | 06:07 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 943
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From: 747 Captain, retired
The business of teaching flying is truly terrible in this country and it makes little sense at all unless you assign a dollar value to flight hours and consider that the real pay. If it does not even make sense that way, then consider doing something else altogether like aerial surveys or pipeline. If not, stay there and pay your dues cheerfully. It's a raw deal on the financial side no matter what you do in entry-level aviation.
09-19-2014 | 12:28 PM
#17
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Joined: Jul 2012
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US Aviation Academy is looking for instructors. We'd be glad to have you and won't have to sit and answer phones or take out the trash.
But, I doubt the janitor will complain if you do take out the trash, so feel free to if it makes you feel like you're getting the real CFI experience.
But, I doubt the janitor will complain if you do take out the trash, so feel free to if it makes you feel like you're getting the real CFI experience.
09-20-2014 | 03:35 PM
#18
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,329
Likes: 4
From: A320 CA
I was an independent contract instructor and spent many a day at the airport for free when I first started--trying to get students. The difference was it was voluntary. Also, as an independent contractor, I charged whatever rate I wanted (I always charged for ground and flight time) and kept every penny. Once I established a client base, I relied on my reputation and didn't need to do it anymore.
I made a pretty good living this way, actually a little too good as it made me reluctant to move on and take a pay cut. 16 years later (after 12 in the AF) I'm making less my first year at US/AA than I made per year as a CFI.
I made a pretty good living this way, actually a little too good as it made me reluctant to move on and take a pay cut. 16 years later (after 12 in the AF) I'm making less my first year at US/AA than I made per year as a CFI.
09-20-2014 | 09:11 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 268
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From: Captain CL-65
In today's market there should be no reason to agree to terms like this. It's the flight instructor equivalent of sitting airport reserve. It's also a sign that the school really isn't attracting any students.
You're hoping that some guy walks thru the door, asks for a demo flight, and then agrees to commit to flight training and become your student.
9/10 of people who walk thru the door are there to just ask questions.
The 1/10 who actually does a demo flight, 9/10 of those will just do the 0.5 hour demo flight and that's it. Find a school that assigns you students.
You're hoping that some guy walks thru the door, asks for a demo flight, and then agrees to commit to flight training and become your student.
9/10 of people who walk thru the door are there to just ask questions.
The 1/10 who actually does a demo flight, 9/10 of those will just do the 0.5 hour demo flight and that's it. Find a school that assigns you students.
This 100% makes sense as being the best option to me. I'm just now becoming a commercial pilot but this has been my mindset all along. Im going through ATP so I am set for the "mill" so to speak but ultimately it's the "assigned students" mentality which helps everyone involved if your the motivated instructor students need.
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