hypnotika

I would recommend a proven and structured program. Since you have a bachelors I would look at 4-year university like Arizona State University and their partnership with ATP. ATP has a fleet of multi-engine aircraft you will be able to fly and probably teach if you make it through the pipeline. ATP is a well known pilot mill and their course is well structured to get people through. More than likely your GenEd courses will transfer over as well. Pheonix is an awesome area with great weather.

flyinryan86

If I were much younger and didn't have a bachelors degree I would heavily consider ASU. Right now it's between CIA (part of Santa Barbara Business College) which offers a 70 week associates which gets me all my ratings to include MEI and the program at Florida State Jacksonville. What I liked about CIA in addition to its location (Ventura, CA) was that it's aligned with Sky West's Cadet Program which looks promising. Both programs should be completely funded by the VA

hypnotika

Nothing wrong with SBBC... its a new program and unproven. I am from that neck of the woods. Appears to be a private institution; I would double check how your GI Bill is being applied. I may have old information but the only public college with an fixed-wing aviation program is Orange Coast Community College (not a great program) last time I looked for an aviation program in CA; which was non-existent. Well, good luck and hope you don't get burnt out as a CFI in a couple months then decide on a career change. It seems like you are already vested in getting an aviation associates. Unsure what an associates can do for you since you have a bachelors (unless you want to qualify for a Restricted ATP). Lets play devils advocate for a moment and say you go to ASU/ATP or something similar... proven structure with a huge fleet, then only concentrate on getting your certs and taking aviation class while saying you're pursuing a degree. Nothing wrong with changing your mind and opting out of get a degree (since you already have one). You may even finish in far less time or same as 70 weeks.

As far as SkyWest pathway... I would argue there are far better jobs out there than working close to minimum wage with a crappy schedule at a Regional and sucking life because Quality of Living is low. Encourage you checked out SurfAir, BeaconAir (Dynamic), Boutique Air, Air Ambulance, Fractional 91K, Cirrus 135/91, or even CapeAir..... but hey its your decision Sir

flyinryan86

Ultimately my dream is to fly for one of the majors (like everyone else I know). I am only interested in the AS degree from wherever because my understanding is the VA will cover it because it's going toward a degree (pilot technology, what have you). Going to one of the pilot mills, while great training and expedient, will put me 60k in debt with only a reserve paycheck (if that) to pay back loans once I start making poverty wages as a CFI to build up hours before applying to a regional. Also, having a living stipend based upon where the school is located is a nice perk too. (E5 w/ BAH rates).

TheWeatherman

That's good, you'll get credit for all the Gen Ed courses. You'll just have to take a few courses that are required for your Aeronautics associates degree like Aerodynamics, Systems, Aviation Weather, etc. They are a piece of cake.

Romeo Hotel

This is where I'm running in to trouble. Since I already have undergrad degrees, I'm going to be receiving less VA money for housing. Most community colleges rate the aviation courses in such a way that you can't stack them to double up. Honestly, it makes sense. You can't work on one rating without obtaining the previous, but it really puts me in a bind financially.

Not only will it be difficult to enroll as a full time student, since the gen ed classes transfer, but I'm limited by the term breaks (summer/spring/etc) which further reduces or completely stops housing allowance.

If I could find a program that would let me train 365 with no breaks, I'd sign up tomorrow and send them my COE by close of business.


It's why I'm torn over the right direction. While obtaining R-ATP seems to be the prudent thing to do, I'll be slowed down by the college's pace. The alternative of obtaining ratings via part 141 without college backing offers less coverage cash wise, and may be equally slowed down due to the additional work schedule I'd have to endure.


Sorry for the gap in responses. Active duty + shift work = no life.

hypnotika

The GI Bill covers 100 hundred percent of flight training if pursuing a degree at essentially any public institution. Unless things have changed, ASU contracts to ATP as a flight provider (there is your work around for not having to go to ATP directly and shell out money). So you go to ASU and ATP program provides the flight training. If you change your mind and switch degrees later... you can do this without penalty. As far as the VA is concerned, you have 36 months to get a degree; frankly, they don't care how you go about it.

hypnotika

I don't understand this. Your BAH rate is E5 w/ dependents for a zipcode. This doesn't change as long as you are using benefits and are 100 percent. Did you already get a 4-year degree with the GI bill?

Term breaks are inevitable. For heaven sake, you get $1200+ in BAH a month to cover living expenses and get book money while pursuing a degree. You can't budget that? How about go on a vacation with your significant other on that trip you never had time to do or take a break to go fishing/camping if you don't have a significant other. There is always the options to go to CAMI in Oklahoma City and knock out high altitude endorsement with the FAA for FREE. Or travel to your FSDO and get your Ground Instructor Cert after completing the knowledge exams during a school break. Or visit that big university to transfer to and pursue a non-aviation related degree (highly recommend if you don't have a bachelors)..... the list goes on.

Yes, you can complete flight training on a somewhat accelerated scheme if you have drive and commitment to do so. I did it and I am not even the smartest guy on the block. Private to Commercial in three terms; skip Winter term due to weather and focus on GenEd (unless you train in AZ/FL) Private during Spring quarter term, Instrument in Summer quarter, Commercial in Fall quarter. Notice I said Quarter-terms inferring colleges typically on the West side of the country. Thats only 8-9 month and I found it to be a relaxed schedule.

My previous community college allowed us to take a max of two (2) flight labs a quarter term. This was a significant pot of money usually associated with Part 141 training that we could use on renting any aircraft in the fleet to train towards our certs. However, the school is not on the restricted-ATP list. I wasn't going to get an aviation degree anyway, and moved on to greener pastures afterwards. I don't care about having it at this point in my career.

Romeo Hotel

That's the rub. You have to be enrolled as a full time student to get the FULL housing allowance. With gen ed courses knocked out, and the VA not covering courses outside degree paths, this would reduce my course load to less than 12 credits a semester. At most, I'd be 75% rate and some semesters only 50%. Being AT 50% means no BAH. 51% and above is the only way to qualify for the housing stipend.

I'll have the courses paid for in full, but the housing allowance would fluctuate each semester. That school out in AZ though looks to only use 1 gen ed class a semester. That's a huge benefit over some of the other programs I've looked at. If I could keep each semester at 75% I think I could make that work easily.

hypnotika

I had the same issue. The work around is to double major in a second degree RELATED to aviation which will be 100 percent covered. Yes, you can do this - ask the VA rep. I picked a business degree because I said I wanted to "go into the aviation business." This allows you to reach the 12 credits you need by taking business courses. Any second degree would work if you can justify it... biology and aviation = Wildlife Biologist dumping fish in lakes from an airplane. Geology and aviation = Aerial Surveying. Engineering and aviation = Flight Test pilot. Computer Science and aviation = Working for Garmin as a programmer for aviation GPS software integration. Criminal justice and aviation = Sheriffs Pilot. That will also help you when you pursue that non-aviation degree later (for those that don't have it).

If the VA rep doesn't believe you, show them:
https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/417230900

TIP: Take as much online classes as you can, have your flight lab done "on-campus". This allows you to get full BAH and prevents scheduling conflicts. Greater flexibility in training, like flying at night or cross-country and not worrying about coming back for class.