FlyingBulldog

A friend of mine recently pointed out to me §61.159 paragraph (b) for ATP requirements. The text is as follows:

(b) A person who has performed at least 20 night takeoffs and landings to a full stop may substitute each additional night takeoff and landing to a full stop for 1 hour of night flight time to satisfy the requirements of paragraph (a)(2) of this section; however, not more than 25 hours of night flight time may be credited in this manner.

I'm curious to see how people are logging these substitute hours. Say I've done 20 takeoffs and full stops at night, so I qualify for this paragraph. If I go fly at night and do 5 takeoffs and full stop taxi backs in a 1.5 hour sortie, would I:

a. Log 1.5 hours total flight time, put 1.5 under night, and maybe annotate in remarks that they were full stop landings with a reminder to do the conversion if I need to do so when it comes time for my ATP checkride.

b. Log 1.5 hours total flight time, put 6.5 hours under night, already applying the conversion (because the only rating I am pursuing is ATP, so what else would I be trying to satisfy other than paragraph (a)(2) of that section?)

c. Log 6.5 hours total flight time, and 6.5 under night, and maybe annotate in remarks that the conversion was applied there. (Logic behind applying it to total time is that the paragraph says it may be substituted for night flight time, which is a type of flight time, so it should be included in the total).

I'm leaning towards option "b", because "c" seems too good to be true (even though you're limited to 25 hours max in this method anyway). I'd like to have some discussion to see what you all think would be most reasonable, and maybe point out anything I may have overlooked. I definitely don't want to log anything dishonestly or unreasonably, but at the same time I want to maximize what I'm allowed under the letter of the law.

say again

Log what you actually flew. Figure out the conversions before your checkride

Tippy

^^^^ this

Log what you did, annotate the night landings and when you fill out the 8710 it accepts the night landings.... so it would be option "A" accept you wont add night time on the 8710, say you have 80 night hours and 100 night landings, you will put the 80 hrs of night and the 100 night landings and it works...

FlyingBulldog

Thanks for the detailed response, Tippy. Didn't know you could just do it on the form. Good to know.


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Flyboyxc91

Correct me if I'm wrong but actually ONLY do the conversion for the 8710 because in your option (b) you would be throwing your logbook off by applying the rule NIGHT + DAY = TT just my .02 of what I would be worried about. Obviously you could explain this but first they are going to look at your times through a computer to give you an interview.

Tippy

You bring up a good point on the total time, This rule cannot be substituted for total aeronautical experience, just the night time as specified. So you he will still need the 1500, 1250 or 1000 as appropriate. I recently used the night landing substitute for my ATP so had a lot of back and forth on the topic.

rickair7777

Like everybody said, always log exactly what you flew. Potential employers do not want to be scratching their heads trying to figure out why your book doesn't add up.

FAR allowances will be accounted for by the examiner. Such allowances are always "instead of"...it doesn't magically create night flight time where none existed it just allows you to substitute something else for the requirement.