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Old 01-09-2017, 10:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyhayes View Post
A view limiting device has to be involved. For any portion of the flight that doesn't involve the hood only one person can be logging the flight time. At a place like DAB, it could easily mean well over 0.5 hours will be unloggable for the safety pilot during each flight due to the ground ops there.
The flight schools I've worked with/talked to operate under this rule. Must have a hood and time without hood only logable by one pilot.
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Old 01-19-2017, 11:41 AM   #12
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Here is an article on how two pilots both log PIC time from AOPA. It breaks it out pretty clearly. If in VFR, the Acting PIC will be the safety pilot and log PIC time. The pilot under the foggles as the sole manipulator of the controls can log PIC time as well.

It is a different case if you are in actual conditions, but the article covers that as well. Bottom line, if someone wants to split costs with this kid to both build time, then you can do it.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-sa...mmand-pic-time
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Old 01-19-2017, 07:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tester130 View Post
Here is an article on how two pilots both log PIC time from AOPA. It breaks it out pretty clearly. If in VFR, the Acting PIC will be the safety pilot and log PIC time. The pilot under the foggles as the sole manipulator of the controls can log PIC time as well.

It is a different case if you are in actual conditions, but the article covers that as well. Bottom line, if someone wants to split costs with this kid to both build time, then you can do it.

https://www.aopa.org/training-and-sa...mmand-pic-time
Thank you for taking the time to find this article. I appreciate the help.
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomisajid View Post
Thank you for taking the time to find this article. I appreciate the help.
And it states (like the rest of us have been saying) that a safety pilot can only log the time that the other pilot is under the hood. You are making it sound like BOTH pilots will be able to log ALL the time.
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Old 01-20-2017, 04:04 PM   #15
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You are correct....the times will not be equal. If the pilot goes under the hood soon after take off and then doesn't come out until MDA or DH, then he will log a few minutes less than the safety pilot. Then again who is to say you don't switch roles for the next flight to keep things fair and even.

I think folks are getting to wrapped around this. Bottom line, if you need hours and live near this guy, then he is looking for someone to split costs with. You can help each other out and both log nearly identical PIC time.


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Old 02-06-2017, 09:51 AM   #16
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Let's analyze the situation here for a moment...I've dealt with this a lot...I mean a LOT.
As Flight instructor I was constantly battling with foreign students who read about something online and now they know better...

It is a combination of regulations:
61.51 (e)(iii)
Quote:
(iii) When the pilot, except for a holder of a sport or recreational pilot certificate, acts as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted;
61.51(g)(3)(ii)
Quote:
(3) For the purposes of logging instrument time to meet the recent instrument experience requirements of §61.57(c) of this part, the following information must be recorded in the person's logbook—

(i) The location and type of each instrument approach accomplished; and

(ii) The name of the safety pilot, if required.
61.57(c)
Quote:
(c) Instrument experience. Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, a person may act as pilot in command under IFR or weather conditions less than the minimums prescribed for VFR only if:

(1) Use of an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship for maintaining instrument experience. Within the 6 calendar months preceding the month of the flight, that person performed and logged at least the following tasks and iterations in an airplane, powered-lift, helicopter, or airship, as appropriate, for the instrument rating privileges to be maintained in actual weather conditions, or under simulated conditions using a view-limiting device that involves having performed the following—

(i) Six instrument approaches.

(ii) Holding procedures and tasks.

(iii) Intercepting and tracking courses through the use of navigational electronic systems.
91.109(c)(1)
Quote:
(c) No person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless—

(1) The other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown.
So to summarize:
SAFETY-pilot time was never intended as a time-building exercise but intended to allow an Instrument rated pilot to maintain the required IFR currency when actual IMC conditions are not "available" eg a fair weather day.
However, the regulations do not specifically NOT allow it.
It is the most abused and misused regulation in the book.
  • You can only log the safety pilot PIC time while the pilot flying is using a view limiting device.
  • The pilot flying must log the name of the safety pilot in order to log simulated IMC.
  • The safety-pilot may NOT log any landings
  • The safety-pilot may not log night.
  • The safety-pilot may not log cross country time.
  • The safety-pilot may only log Total Time and PIC time.
  • In order to justify and legally count this time you must log it as safety-pilot time and put the applicable regulations in the remarks section of their logbook because otherwise 61.59(a)(1)(2) comes into play which is logbook falsification which is grounds for revocation.

61.59
Quote:
(a) No person may make or cause to be made:

(1) Any fraudulent or intentionally false statement on any application for a certificate, rating, authorization, or duplicate thereof, issued under this part;

(2) Any fraudulent or intentionally false entry in any logbook, record, or report that is required to be kept, made, or used to show compliance with any requirement for the issuance or exercise of the privileges of any certificate, rating, or authorization under this part;
So the counting of safety-pilot time is a risky enterprise and of very limited value. You are better off finding a flying buddy that needs to do the same and act as safety-pilots without logging any of the actual "safety" time.
So instead of a 2hr there and back cross country you can fly a 4 hr cross country where each flies a 2hr leg and pays for their share.
You get the other 2hr experience for free.
The trick with time-building is to fill as many columns in your logbook.
  • Total Time
  • Cross country time
  • Night Time
  • Simulated Instrument time
  • PIC time

Using a safety-pilot buddy allows you to fill an extra column and gain the extra instrument flying experience.
On the way back you return the favor.
But I would stay away from logging it as apart from padding your time to meet a requirement it serves no purpose and trust me, it's frowned upon.
even in Airline-land.
I'm too lazy to look it up but people have also lost their license over logging fraudulent time.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:35 AM   #17
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Default I'm also interested in hood/safety pic flying

Nemo please check your pm's.

I'm an experienced pilot also looking to do sim/safety pilot flying in Daytona during late February to early March (in strict accordance with the FAR's).

Please private message me with your availability and phone number.

Thanks.
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Old 02-21-2017, 01:49 PM   #18
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Default More than happy to spilt time

Nemo,

Also looking to do the same thing in Daytona next month.
I believe we can fly for less.

Drop me a line..

Engineer738
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