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Old 06-07-2017 | 02:38 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by captjns
U.S. carriers too have reduced pay which will last until O.E. is complete.
Um.... UAL new hires actually take a sizable pay cut when they finish IOE. ($85/hr X 90 hrs)+$50/day per diem + hotel expenses paid for + PS travel on off days. Maybe you should actually read the contracts. DAL new hires are making almost $90/hr and those are the ones who aren't upgrading to CAPTAIN.

Originally Posted by captjns
To bring you up to date...

I didn't vote to subsidize any U.S. carrier with my tax dollars.

Big Airlines Benefit from Bailout Bill | Taxpayers for Common Sense

You're telling half truths. Most the money quoted in that article was never allotted, UAL was denied specifically for the ATSB loan. Never mind the fact that... assuming all $15b was given out... that would be less than 1/3 for the entire US industry of the amount EK has directly received from their govt. Notice that article didn't give any specifics?

Swing and a miss.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 07:35 AM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by Grumble
Um.... UAL new hires actually take a sizable pay cut when they finish IOE. ($85/hr X 90 hrs)+$50/day per diem + hotel expenses paid for + PS travel on off days. Maybe you should actually read the contracts. DAL new hires are making almost $90/hr and those are the ones who aren't upgrading to CAPTAIN.



You're telling half truths. Most the money quoted in that article was never allotted, UAL was denied specifically for the ATSB loan. Never mind the fact that... assuming all $15b was given out... that would be less than 1/3 for the entire US industry of the amount EK has directly received from their govt. Notice that article didn't give any specifics?

Swing and a miss.

Been awhile since I read that fantastic report by ALPA on alleged ME3 subsidies, but as I recall the majority of their total was allocated to Qatar and Etihad with only some vague unproved fuel hedges getting reimbursed for Emirates.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 04:05 PM
  #173  
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If NAI gets their way you may not have a jumpseat to deny.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 06:28 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by NEDude
Every U.S. airline is subsidised. If U.S. airlines had to play by the same rules as the European airlines, Delta, United and American (as well as the airlines they merged with), would all be relegated to the dustbin of history. Bankruptcy laws allow U.S. airlines significantly more financial flexibility than European airlines. European airlines cannot simply declare chapter 11, rake in huge bonuses for the executives, screw everyone else with the blessings of the federal court system, and continue to operate. If the U.S. airlines are going to accuse others of not playing fairly, the they need to get rid of the very unique chapter 11 rules that are not found in other parts of the world.

Also, please explain how Norwegian is government subsidised. This is the first time I have heard that accusation used against them.
NAI is a scheme of convenience meant to undermine the collective improvements of the entire US airline industry.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 07:07 PM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by badflaps
If NAI gets their way you may not have a jumpseat to deny.

That is such a naïve and uninformed thing to say.

That statement is the epitome of ALPA national and their poor strategy towards any kind of a competitive threat brought about by technological change.

The 737 Max and the A320 Neo series aircraft will transform the North Atlantic transportation market. Soon enough RyanAir, EasyJet, JetBlue, Spirit, and others will join in. The U.S. incumbents and their labor groups need to be ready for that.

Hoping and praying it won't happen, or worse yet, attempting to threaten those who are at the forefront of the new reality won't change what is coming.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 09:01 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
That is such a naïve and uninformed thing to say.

That statement is the epitome of ALPA national and their poor strategy towards any kind of a competitive threat brought about by technological change.

The 737 Max and the A320 Neo series aircraft will transform the North Atlantic transportation market. Soon enough RyanAir, EasyJet, JetBlue, Spirit, and others will join in. The U.S. incumbents and their labor groups need to be ready for that.

Hoping and praying it won't happen, or worse yet, attempting to threaten those who are at the forefront of the new reality won't change what is coming.
Totally agree 100%... These U.S legacy pilots think they own the entire game of Aviation. Hope it works out for them but they live in a bubble. Aviation is a worldwide phenomenon believe it or not. I'm not in favor of NAI types either but I believe what I see and experience. The game is changing very fast.
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Old 06-08-2017 | 09:27 PM
  #177  
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..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757
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Old 06-09-2017 | 02:01 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by B757
..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757
You think there is something wrong with airlines assaulting their passengers?!

https://www.yahoo.com/news/united-ai...163419571.html
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Old 06-11-2017 | 12:36 PM
  #179  
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Originally Posted by baseball
NAI is a scheme of convenience meant to undermine the collective improvements of the entire US airline industry.
As a european carrier, all it can do is underminde the collective improvements in the european airline industry, and it tries to do that, same as Ryanair did, and all the others do. Every EU carrier has the same rights, and at some point will probably use them. So be prepared for the 1500€/month 150 hour Wizzair pilot flying to the US with unlimited traffic rights, once they order A321NEO LR. Or, for that matter, the pay to fly Air Baltic pilots. Norwegian is not the worst airline by far, they just use the possibilities earlier.
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Old 06-11-2017 | 02:48 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by B757
..If all US carriers would provide their passengers quality service and happy travels, you would not see any of this NAI / ME3 discussion on this website..There is a reason these airlines are coming to America..No company can exist long term without happy customers..The unhappy ones will seek for better options..And they are now available..

Go out there and see it yourself..

Fly safe,
B757
Sure, lets pitch all our seats like NAI and shove them full... while at the same time giving back 60% or more of pay and benefits fought for by generations of mainline pilots.

As for the ME3, let's combine all the US majors into one major State owned airline, and subsidize all costs while at the same time not disclosing any financials by any accepted means. You can take a shower after your steak and lobster dinner for your $500 transcon so long as your tax dollars are filling the gaps.
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