sailingfun

He would have no say in how you look as a non rev. That’s strictly a function for gate agents and beards are certainly allowed. Can’t believe the gate agent allowed the CA to pull you. How did he even know you were a non rev and not paying for the seat?

WickedSmaht

I may have misunderstood him but I believe he said he was in full uniform. Granted that doesn't HAVE to mean jumpseat/non-rev but I'm sure that made Captain Happypants start asking questions and maybe even enlist the support of the gate agent.

airscout

Yes, I was in full uniform. I had just finished work and was commuting home.

In the past I could list myself as a non-rev on Delta. I had Delta pass benefits and access to the Delta intranet. When I talked to Delta agents about listing for pax seats and/or the jumpseat I was told to list initially for one or the other. They didn't like you to dual list. So I would list myself for a seat in the back and only list for the jumpseat about 30-60 minutes prior to departure if it was going to be full in back. I think this was so off-line pilots had a better guess on if the jumpseat was available. I never thought a whole lot about it, but anyway that's how the agents at the airports I flew out of liked to organize stuff so that's how I did it.

At PenAir it was opposite since I didn't have access to the Delta employee website and couldn't list myself for a seat in back. So I first listed for the jumpseat and then if that wasn't available (or in this case the captain wouldn't allow me to occupy it) then I would get listed non-rev for a seat in the back or buy a Zed fare.

In the situation I discussed I was no longer on the flight as a jumpseater (although I had originally listed as a jumpseater but a Delta pilot took that), I was a ZED fare in back. The captain told the gate agent not to board me. The gate agent was totally embarrassed by the situation and apologized. I don't blame her and told her so. I did tell her to tell the captain that these things were reciprocal and karma comes around. But, at that point PenAir was all but finished in BOS so I'm sure nobody worried much about that.

Maybe some wires got crossed somewhere and the Delta captain still thought that I was listed as a jumpseater? I don't know. But given my past experiences with this guy I could tell that he would gladly go out of his way to make a point. Beards just anger some people.

Fr8Thrust

Usually the ones who lack the testosterone to grow one.

TrojanCMH

I don’t think Delta or its pilots were too worried about losing the Penn Air jumpseat agreement.

But I agree that Delta certainly does hire a certain type.


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airscout

Yes, Delta's type is definitely non-Sikh.

Kudos to Air Canada for putting in some effort and research to end discrimination!

tomgoodman

They don’t want pilots taking Sikh leave.

sailingfun

So you showed up with a beard intending to jumpseat knowing you would be putting the Captain at risk if he allowed it. As I said in another post. If you want a JS show up in compliance with the rules of that airline. Don’t be unshaven or in blue jeans if the requirements differ. To do so makes you the tool not the Captain.

airscout

As I said, I was learning these new Delta ways trip by trip. Experiences vary. Ultimately the jumpseat is at the discretion of the captain. Pretty much everything is at the discretion of the captain. Flights operate or don't operate by discretion, etc. You could ground every flight if you dig hard enough into the rulebook. If you're one of those kinds of people then you belong working for the TSA confiscating fingernail clippers, not in charge of an aircraft. Legal rules are always used to discriminate when they are applied with malice or no thought. In between airline jobs, I was a cop for a while. What would people think of me if I ticketed every jaywalker, 71mph in a 70mph zone speeder, etc? They would think I was a giant ******** and they'd be right. There is important stuff and there's chicken **** stuff. Worrying about a pilot non-revving with a beard in the passenger cabin is chicken**** stuff. Or, maybe that's just me. I'll be the first to admit I'm probably not Delta material. In fact, after that experience, I pulled my Delta application. I'm a big picture kind of guy. I don't think Delta is a big picture kind of airline. They're more like too big to fail.

In any case, this isn't really so much about my personal experience and if I'm right or wrong in how I listed for flights. It's about Air Canada and what they did to right a wrong. I wish other airlines would think the same way. That's all.

JohnBurke

No.

If you're the one that put in the years and have the seniority to be a captain, and it's your airplane because you've proven yourself for enough decades to get there and your employer places you in their confidence and gives you that authority, then you belong in charge of that aircraft.

If you don't like it...go put in the effort and the years, become the captain, and then you can do something about it.

Until then, whining about it won't help. Fulfill the jumpsuit rules, whether you're in the cockpit or cabin, or find another ride. It really is so simple.