Andy

Pareto's estimate was close. Norwegian's EBITDAR was +87.8 million NOK. Of course that counted one time gains. Toss in interest, depreciation, taxes, and amortization and Norwegian had a net loss of 1.489 billion NOK.

Typhoonpilot

Outrage from ALPA and the U.S. CEOs in 3-2-1...…….


Seoul mandates massive credit package for Asiana

23 April, 2019 SOURCE: Flight Dashboard BY: Greg Waldron Singapore

Asiana Airlines appears set to receive a liquidity injection of W1.6 trillion ($1.4 billion) from creditors, led by state-run Korea Development Bank (KDB).

Korea’s Ministry of Economy and Finance confirms that creditors plan to buy W500 billion in Asiana perpetual bonds, and extend the embattled carrier a KRW800 billion credit line.

Plans appear to be at a preliminary stage. It is not yet clear where the additional W300 billion will come from.

The airline initially declined to comment on the news.

The ministry’s announcement follows news on 15 April that Kumho Industrial will sell its 33% stake in Asiana Airlines as it seeks to shore up its finances.

The sale decision was made by Kumho’s board on 15 April, a stock exchange disclosure stated, but no timeline for the sale nor the likely price were set.

Kumho Industrial is the holding company of the Kumho Asiana Group, which has been seeking around W500 billion in emergency loans from KDB its largest creditor.

NEDude

It really is a shame U.S. airlines can't get any sort of government lifeline...

captjns

They did... Airline Bailout from 9/11... funded by taxpayers. Termination of Defined Benefit Pension Plans at the cost of the employees of their respective airlines retirement benefits.

Packrat

I'd LOL if it wasn't true. I still feel sorry for the DAL/UAL pilots that got screwed by this.

NEDude

I forgot to include the sarcasm button. U.S. airlines get billions in government subsidies, and protections. They are the recipients of at least $1 Billion in subsidiaries annually in the form of tax breaks. Plus Chapter 11 of the bankruptcy code allows failing U.S. airlines a lifeline that does not exists for non-U.S. carriers.

Andy

You might want to look into the Airport and Aviation Trust Fund, which gets its money from aviation taxes and funds all of those 'subsidies'. Most of the money that goes into the AATF is from taxes on airline passenger tickets.
Air travel is one of the most heavily taxed purchases one can make in the US.
The AATF also funds more than 80% of the FAA budget.

In FY2017, the AATF collected more than $15B in taxes.

But sure, stick with that 'subsidy' narrative.

MaxQ

Taxes on the tickets passengers buy is separate from the various subsidies the airlines themselves get.
The aviation trust fund is funded by the passengers, not the airlines.

(and no, if the tax were eliminated the airlines would not pass the savings along to the passengers, or the extra money earned to the employees, they would just pocket it and all the employees would jump up and down with glee at the record profits their employer was making)

Andy

Seriously? Live much in the real world?

You think that taxes/fees don't impact the airlines? If taxes weren't an issue, people who have a choice wouldn't be fleeing high tax states for low tax states.

You also think that airlines aren't a commodity business where Spirit/Frontier/Southwest/Allegiant/etc won't drive prices down if taxes were stripped away from ticket prices?

Awesome; keep living in your world.

NEDude

Most of the tax breaks come from State and local governments. For example United Airlines gets a $20 million annual tax break on fuel purchases from the State of New Jersey alone. In 2012 the State of New York subsidized airlines to the tune of $227 million in tax breaks. These are separate from the AATF you mention.

Speaking of the AATF, sorry, but that goes against you too. International flights are charged at $18.30 (FY 2018) per person, per segment, and provide about $3.9 Billion of the $15 Billion in revenue collected. According to the DOT's Bureau of Transportation Statistics, in 2018 foreign carriers accounted for 52.4% of international passenger traffic to and from the U.S. and about 12.1% of total passengers in the U.S. air transportation system. Foreign airlines paid approximately $2.04 Billion of the $15 Billion raised by the AATF. So foreign carriers are contributing 13.6% of the funds for the AATF, but only carrying 12.1% of the passengers taxed by the fund, meaning foreign carriers are getting hit harder by the AATF than U.S. carriers are. Looks like U.S. airlines are getting subsidized by foreign carriers...

Regarding federal taxes, airlines have benefited greatly from the recent federal tax reform. In January 2018 Southwest airlines alone reported a $1.4 Billion benefit from federal tax reform. JetBlue reported $504 million in tax savings in Q4 2017. United's tax bill in Q4 2017 fell 95.9%.

That, my friend, is the "real world" which you talk about. Not this fantasy ALPA/A4A world you seem to be convinced is reality. So yes, I am sticking with that subsidy narrative. Still waiting to hear how you think chapter 11, which allows financially insolvent U.S. airlines to continue operating, shed their debts, and destroy their employment contracts, is not an unfair advantage to U.S. airlines.