Purpleanga

How much does it cost to convert ratings? I looked up one of the schools they said about 35K, is this accurate? Why would I pay 35K for a couple of paper tests and a few hours on a cessna?

shogun

I don't know where you got your informations but they are wrong. You need to pass 14 written exams and you will have to convert your CPL/IR by going through a conversion course that's at least 30 hours. On top of that the European schools don't use Cessnas to do their professional course, plus gas and instructors being more expensive, that gives you the reason why it would cost 35K.

The JAA conversion is a little bit far away from 2 papers and acouple of hours in a Cessna.......

captjns

As they say... drop a dime and call the flight schools directly. They can give you accurate information based on your circumstances.

olympic

35,000 dollars for conversion?
Heck I payed about 12,000 dollars and that was because I went to OXFORD and did the full time ground.
You can do it for a lot cheaper...

Good luck.

PS- Check Naples or OFT if you want to do it in the states

Kenny

It does depend on whether you already have an FAA ATP or CPL. That price would probably be about right if you already have a CPL, as there are set amounts of flight training required. Wheras, if you have an ATP, you just have to do as much flight training as you need to, to pass the flight tests. That'll depend on how quickly you adapt to the JAA way of doing things and currency in a piston aircraft.

bubi352

I paid so far:

1) For the distance learning and written exams about $4000
2) Commercial conversion which included 5 hours in PA44, 2 Hours of Ground instruction (to familiarize with the JAA skill test) and the exam fee (1030$ - yep you heard it right) about $5000.
3) IR conversion needs to be done in a JAA/CAA state. Cheaper is done in Spain with about 6000$.

Those are realistic figures now. If I can add numbers you will look at around 15,000$. Look at Naples Air Center for the distance learning. They are really good. Don't take their books! There is no official Gleim but there is an unofficial one - you can study using Bristol (Welcome to Bristol.gs or Aviation, Air Ambulance, Private Jets, Aircraft for Sale, Airplane for Sale, Aircraft Loan, Aircraft Part, Blimp, Aviation Headset, Aircraft, Private Plane, Used Aircraft, Airplane, Aircraft Sales, Fractional Aircraft Ownership, Aircraft Interior, Le). There is about 15,000 questions but those are the questions you will get - period! You study this and you are guarantee a pass. Written exams can be done in Orlando. That's actually the only place in the US otherwise it has to be done in Europe. For the ATPL or CPL conversion, have a look at Ormond Beach Aviation. It's a small school but they will get you done quick and cheap. Good guys there. This being said there are other flight schools - shop around. Finally the IR needs to be done in Europe. Spain has a good reputation. Check Aerodynamics.

greekpilot

thanks for the info!

T1Holding

It all depends on your experience level and total time. If you have ATP and you manage to get hired by a JAA carrier, you can validate" your FAA ATP. You must have FAA type rating for the airplane you are going to be flying in JAA carrier. Once you are done with the operators training you will be issued a validation of your FAA ATP (all based on FAA type rating and license, including FAA 1st class medical for the duration of validation).
Validation is good for 1 year during which you must take all 14 JAA ATPL written exams. If you have at least 1500 PIC you can do this as a self-study, no classroom required. Once all written exams are done, you will be issued the JAA ATPL after your next company proficiency check.
Not easy but can be done if you have the right experience. Of course right now might not be the easiest time to get hired in Europe, but good luck.
I have not done this myself, but I know somebody who is in the middle of the process. JAA written tests are quite difficult compared to the FAA ATP.(14000 question bank).
This is all I know about this, check with your local JAA authorities about validation.
This would be almost free + you get paid while working for one year.

T1Holding

Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.015
Minimum requirements for the validation of pilot licences of non-JAA States

(See JAR–FCL 1.015)
(See AMC FCL 1.005 & 1.015)

1 The minimum requirements for the validation of a pilot licence of a non-JAA State by a JAA Member
State are specified below.

Pilot licences for commercial air transportation and other professional activities

2 A pilot licence issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be validated
subject to conditions by a JAA Member State in order to permit flights (other than flight instruction) in
aeroplanes registered in that JAA Member State. To validate such licences, the holder shall:
(a) complete, as a skill test, the type or class rating revalidation requirements of JAR–FCL 1.245
relevant to the privileges of the licence held;
(b) demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Authority that a knowledge of the relevant parts of JAR–
OPS and JAR–FCL (see AMC FCL 1.005 & 1.015) has been acquired;
(c) demonstrate a knowledge of English in accordance with JAR–FCL 1.200;
(d) hold a valid JAR–FCL Class 1 medical certificate;
(e) meet any published additional requirements that the JAA Member State deems necessary; and
(f) comply with the experience requirements set out in column (2) of the following table in relation
to the validation conditions specified in column (3):

Licence held
Total flying hours experience
Validation conditions
(1) (2) (3)
ATPL(A) >1 500 hours as PIC on multi-pilot aeroplanes Commercial air transport in multi-pilot
aeroplanes as PIC
(a)
ATPL(A) or CPL(A)/IR* >1 500 hours as PIC or co-pilot on multi-pilot
aeroplanes according to operational requirements
Commercial air transport in multi-pilot
aeroplanes as co-pilot
(b)
CPL(A)/IR >1 000 hours as PIC in commercial air transport
since gaining an IR
Commercial air transport in single-pilot
aeroplanes as PIC
(c)
CPL(A)/IR >1 000 hours as PIC or as co-pilot in single-pilot
aeroplanes according to operational requirements
Commercial air transport in single-pilot
aeroplanes as co-pilot according to JAR–OPS
(d)
CPL(A) >700 hours in aeroplanes other than TMGs,
including 200 hours in the activity role for which
validation is sought, and 50 hours in that role in the
last 12 months
Activities in aeroplanes other than commercial
air transport
(e)

*CPL(A)/IR holders on multi-pilot aeroplanes shall have demonstrated ICAO ATPL(A) level knowledge before validation

Private pilot licences with Instrument Rating

3 A private pilot licence with instrument rating issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA
State may be validated subject to conditions by a JAA Member State in order to permit flights (other than
flight instruction) in aeroplanes registered in that JAA Member State. To validate such licences, the
holder shall:
(a) complete, as a skill test, the type/class and instrument rating of Appendix 1 and 2 to JAR-FCL
1.210 and Appendix 3 to JAR-FCL 1.240;
(b) demonstrate to the satisfaction of the Authority in accordance with Subpart J, that a knowledge
of Air Law and the Aeronautical Weather codes, subject number 050 10 03 01, as well as the Flight
Planning & Performance (IR), subject number 030 00 00 00, Human Performance subject number 040 00
00 00 in accordance with Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.470 has been acquired;
(c) demonstrate a knowledge of English in accordance with JAR-FCL 1.200;

SECTION 1 JAR-FCL 1

Amendment 7 1–A–20 01.12.06
(d) hold at least a valid JAR-FCL Class 2 medical certificate including hearing requirements in
accordance with JAR-FCL 3.355(b);
(e) hold R/T privileges acceptable to the Authority,
(f) comply with the experience requirements set out in column (2) of the following table:
Licence held Total flying hours experience
(1) (2)
PPL/IR > 100 hrs PIC instrument flight time

[Amdt. 1, 01.06.00; Amdt. 2, 01.08.02]

INTENTIONALLY LEFT

acebaxter

There is a big difference between a validation of an ICAO license and the issuance of a JAA license.

The validation lets you use the current ICAO license for a very specific purpose. Usually to fly one airlines aircraft and often those aircraft must be registered in the State giving the validation. You can get a letter to fly other registrations if they are on your airlines AOC.

The issuance of a JAA license is an entirely new license. There are many ways to get it and it does depend greatly on your experience. It's not easy, it doesn't have to be expensive, but it does give you much greater flexibility. All that said, without a work permit you are stuck so research that as well.

So, the way I did it was to get a validation of my FAA tickets to fly for a specific airline. Then I took 14 exams covering everything I forgot in college 23 years ago. When those were completed, and the IAA notified, I did a normal six month check at the airline with a few more items thrown in. At the end I had my very own JAA ATPL.

Cost: 14 exams at 104 euro a piece. 3 months access to Bristol Ground School's online test database for 75 euros. About 100 euros for misc. supplies and books.

Was it worth it? Definitely. Was it easy? No.

Keep in mind that if you are going to be happy and prosper in Europe you need to be able to "fit in" in whatever culture you end up in. The attitude expressed in some of the postings here leads me to believe some people would not be happy or welcome in Europe.

If you get the chance to go, do it. You will learn a lot about yourself, other people and cultures, and especially some of the fallacies as well as the truths about how we view each other.

Jim