Saudi Airlines
12-22-2015, 03:58 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,378
Originally Posted by Sky4Me
Upgrade forget it, this is not for expats FO!! If you get hireded as FO, you will stay FO forever.
Compound life: For new hires no more compound housing. Management is looking out for cheaper rentals places close to airport area for expats.
Base : JED and RUH (most are offered JED)
Money is okay on B777 only, but for A320/A330 not so good. A320 guys do very few layovers a month.
Pick EY, EK, QR over Saudi. There are other Saudi forums on airlinepilotforums.com read them you will get good idea.
QOL
So, you wanted a more hardcore perspective,*this one is for you. Firstly, let me lay it right out: for an expat living in Saudi Arabia, there isn’t much to do locally. Don’t expect cinemas, bar restaurants / bars, or anything like that. The kingdom is*not built for entertainment. Many things you take for granted in the USA*are illegal*or frowned upon here.
This may actually change your mind in case you were considered being an expat living in Saudi Arabia. You absolutely can't date, even if you are a local or an expat living in Saudi Arabia. That doesn’t mean people don’t date, but you can't meet publicly*or be seen together. The religious police have every right to stop you and ask for your marriage license. If you don’t have one,*guess what happens? You go straight to jail—unless you’re a good smooth-talker.
Even if you are discrete*about dating, all of the restaurants and coffee shops are*sectioned off between men’s sections and family/women’s sections.*You can risk it, walk in, and pretend to be married, but if the religious police finds out,*you’re toast. There are also rumors of cash awards being handed out for those who report suspicious couples who turn out to be unmarried. Many locals get married so that they may live a more “normal” life. Being a single guy in Saudi Arabia sucks since you can't enter the family sections. Commissioned by the*committee for the promotion of virtue and the prevention of vice,*these religious policemen*enforce the strict-Shari’a law of the kingdom. They cruise the streets in white SUVs, looking out for anyone*committing sin. They wear regular white thobes and are*occasionally escortedby a policeman or two.
As an expat living in Saudi Arabia, one of the first things you will notice about the people here is*their fear*of this religious patrol. The patrol generally roams around in pairs and toutlong bears*(signs of Islamic devotion). If these men*catch you*walking with a woman that is not a direct relative / your wife, or breaking the religious law in any way–such as a woman driving or not wearing her veil–they have*full authority to arrest you*and take you to jail. An expat living in Saudi Arabia may also be surprised to find out that prayer times, which happen 5 times a day,*are mandatory. If you are Muslim, you are required to pray. If they catch you outside a Starbucks drinking a latte during prayer time, they most likely will harass you or, in extreme cases,*haul you off to prison. With that said, they will usually leave expats alone—unless you look Arabic.
Every country has its cultures and traditions. One which an expat living in Saudi Arabia may find very frustrating is the*constant closing of shops. Muslims pray five times a day, and these prayer time windows last about thirty minute. During this time, shops are required to close and sales to stop. If you’re a person who likes lounging around coffee shops or malls,*be aware*that prayer times will cause shop closures. Gyms also close during prayer time. The whole city literally stops. An expat living in Saudi Arabia needs to understand and*accept this cultural difference. Now this doesn’t mean some places don't violate the law*and stay open during prayer times (some gyms just turn their lights off, shut their doors, and leave their members inside), but those aren’t common. Since I practically live at Starbucks, they don’t mind that I stay inside during prayer time. I just need to*remain away*from the windows and out of sight. But that doesn’t stop the religious police from walking in and asking you what you’re doing there, then fining the establishment. They may even take you both to jail.
Okay you are not single then this is for your wife : Being a woman in Saudi Arabia means*you can't drive. You will need to either obtain a personal driver, share a driver with other women, or get a taxi.*If you are seen*driving a car, you will be taken to prison. Yes, I know some women have*recently started driving in protest. They do not do it often, nor do they go long distances.*If they get caught, they most likely will go to prison. Your wife will get very bored very fast here because of her social life in Saudi. Be ready to hear how she hates living in Saudi Arabia.
Kids:
I don't have kids so no first hand experience. But one of my friend left Saudi because his boys were getting harassed by local youth. Boys were forced to learn about Allah and how Allah is Only One God. If they will not believe in Allah they will face painful death blah blah blah.........
As an expat working in Saudi Arabia I have had only three minor incidents, none of which were serious. I was spat at from a moving car by a group of Saudi youths (around the 20’s mark I would guess), and I had another group of bored Saudi youth over take me whilst driving only to open both passenger doors of my side and the youths to hang out of the car shouting at me in Arabic and making gestures – they soon jumped back in when I put my foot on the accelerator and drove at them (Probably not a good move on my part!). If you are not Muslim it is good enough reason for them to start fight. Cops will never ever support you, if you don't know Arabic.
Please no more questions because I don't want to sound like negative person. Praying every day for interview invite from AA/DL/UA so I can get out of this hell - Saudi Arabia.
Compound life: For new hires no more compound housing. Management is looking out for cheaper rentals places close to airport area for expats.
Base : JED and RUH (most are offered JED)
Money is okay on B777 only, but for A320/A330 not so good. A320 guys do very few layovers a month.
Pick EY, EK, QR over Saudi. There are other Saudi forums on airlinepilotforums.com read them you will get good idea.
QOL
So, you wanted a more hardcore perspective,*this one is for you. Firstly, let me lay it right out: for an expat living in Saudi Arabia, there isn’t much to do locally. Don’t expect cinemas, bar restaurants / bars, or anything like that. The kingdom is*not built for entertainment. Many things you take for granted in the USA*are illegal*or frowned upon here.
This may actually change your mind in case you were considered being an expat living in Saudi Arabia. You absolutely can't date, even if you are a local or an expat living in Saudi Arabia. That doesn’t mean people don’t date, but you can't meet publicly*or be seen together. The religious police have every right to stop you and ask for your marriage license. If you don’t have one,*guess what happens? You go straight to jail—unless you’re a good smooth-talker.
Even if you are discrete*about dating, all of the restaurants and coffee shops are*sectioned off between men’s sections and family/women’s sections.*You can risk it, walk in, and pretend to be married, but if the religious police finds out,*you’re toast. There are also rumors of cash awards being handed out for those who report suspicious couples who turn out to be unmarried. Many locals get married so that they may live a more “normal” life. Being a single guy in Saudi Arabia sucks since you can't enter the family sections. Commissioned by the*committee for the promotion of virtue and the prevention of vice,*these religious policemen*enforce the strict-Shari’a law of the kingdom. They cruise the streets in white SUVs, looking out for anyone*committing sin. They wear regular white thobes and are*occasionally escortedby a policeman or two.
As an expat living in Saudi Arabia, one of the first things you will notice about the people here is*their fear*of this religious patrol. The patrol generally roams around in pairs and toutlong bears*(signs of Islamic devotion). If these men*catch you*walking with a woman that is not a direct relative / your wife, or breaking the religious law in any way–such as a woman driving or not wearing her veil–they have*full authority to arrest you*and take you to jail. An expat living in Saudi Arabia may also be surprised to find out that prayer times, which happen 5 times a day,*are mandatory. If you are Muslim, you are required to pray. If they catch you outside a Starbucks drinking a latte during prayer time, they most likely will harass you or, in extreme cases,*haul you off to prison. With that said, they will usually leave expats alone—unless you look Arabic.
Every country has its cultures and traditions. One which an expat living in Saudi Arabia may find very frustrating is the*constant closing of shops. Muslims pray five times a day, and these prayer time windows last about thirty minute. During this time, shops are required to close and sales to stop. If you’re a person who likes lounging around coffee shops or malls,*be aware*that prayer times will cause shop closures. Gyms also close during prayer time. The whole city literally stops. An expat living in Saudi Arabia needs to understand and*accept this cultural difference. Now this doesn’t mean some places don't violate the law*and stay open during prayer times (some gyms just turn their lights off, shut their doors, and leave their members inside), but those aren’t common. Since I practically live at Starbucks, they don’t mind that I stay inside during prayer time. I just need to*remain away*from the windows and out of sight. But that doesn’t stop the religious police from walking in and asking you what you’re doing there, then fining the establishment. They may even take you both to jail.
Okay you are not single then this is for your wife : Being a woman in Saudi Arabia means*you can't drive. You will need to either obtain a personal driver, share a driver with other women, or get a taxi.*If you are seen*driving a car, you will be taken to prison. Yes, I know some women have*recently started driving in protest. They do not do it often, nor do they go long distances.*If they get caught, they most likely will go to prison. Your wife will get very bored very fast here because of her social life in Saudi. Be ready to hear how she hates living in Saudi Arabia.
Kids:
I don't have kids so no first hand experience. But one of my friend left Saudi because his boys were getting harassed by local youth. Boys were forced to learn about Allah and how Allah is Only One God. If they will not believe in Allah they will face painful death blah blah blah.........
As an expat working in Saudi Arabia I have had only three minor incidents, none of which were serious. I was spat at from a moving car by a group of Saudi youths (around the 20’s mark I would guess), and I had another group of bored Saudi youth over take me whilst driving only to open both passenger doors of my side and the youths to hang out of the car shouting at me in Arabic and making gestures – they soon jumped back in when I put my foot on the accelerator and drove at them (Probably not a good move on my part!). If you are not Muslim it is good enough reason for them to start fight. Cops will never ever support you, if you don't know Arabic.
Please no more questions because I don't want to sound like negative person. Praying every day for interview invite from AA/DL/UA so I can get out of this hell - Saudi Arabia.
Can I ask you a serious question. Why in the hell would anyone in their right mind want to live in such a miserable place? Why not try and get on with JBlue, SWA, VA, even Spirit (whom I work for and have met a few ex-Emirates, Qatar etc) I get the money but with no kids and not being able to spend it on any R&R in that hellhole, why not leave?
01-03-2016, 05:15 PM
#35
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 94
I just returned after three years there. I lived on Saudia City. By western standards it's a dump. Cats everywhere, watering the grass means leaving an open hose on the lawn until the ground is saturated enough to breed mosquitoes and mildew later.
On the bright side, I learned to scuba dive and there are private resorts which are reasonable enough to visit weekly. They are exclusive of locals. Since the owners are usually of great influence, religious police are not so inclined to meddle.
Sent from my Venue 7 HSPA+ using Tapatalk
On the bright side, I learned to scuba dive and there are private resorts which are reasonable enough to visit weekly. They are exclusive of locals. Since the owners are usually of great influence, religious police are not so inclined to meddle.
Sent from my Venue 7 HSPA+ using Tapatalk
01-04-2016, 05:24 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Given recent developments I would be very wary of any job in the Gulf region right now. I don't know how even Emirates, Qatar or Etihad would escape major disruptions if a full scale war were to break out between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Hard to stay out of things when you are sandwiched in-between two countries at war. Even if Qatar and UAE manage to stay out of the war, how do you get flights in and out of that region without flying directly through active war zones?
01-04-2016, 06:41 PM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 737 NG CAPT.
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by NEDude
Given recent developments I would be very wary of any job in the Gulf region right now. I don't know how even Emirates, Qatar or Etihad would escape major disruptions if a full scale war were to break out between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Hard to stay out of things when you are sandwiched in-between two countries at war. Even if Qatar and UAE manage to stay out of the war, how do you get flights in and out of that region without flying directly through active war zones?
Beijing rejects Vietnam protest over South China Sea landing
01-04-2016, 09:19 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
Originally Posted by EXPAT1
As opposed to such a safe haven in China where 3 major long-term warfronts could erupt simulateously. China-Taiwan, China-North Korea, China-all other South China Sea countries. It would surely be safe and non-threatening in such a safe house as China.
Beijing rejects Vietnam protest over South China Sea landing
Beijing rejects Vietnam protest over South China Sea landing
Seriously, where on earth do you get China out of my comment?! There are many places in the world that have potential for armed conflict, including China. But my comment was specifically aimed at the current issues in the Persian Gulf region that are escalating quickly and in no way were implying that China and the far east were immune from potential conflict.
But, since you did bring it up. Even if China were to begin a shooting war over the South China Sea, there are plenty of places Chinese Airlines could fly well outside of the conflict zones. Not so for Qatar, Emirates and Etihad should the Iran - Saudi Arabia issue escalate to large scale armed conflict. East and North are Iran, West and South are Saudi Arabia and Yemen (where a proxy war between the Saudis and Iranians is already ongoing). For the UAE and Qatar, very small countries which lie squarely in the middle of the conflict zone, the situation is entirely different than China which is one of the largest countries on earth. Outside of the potential economic issues, China getting into a shooting war over the South China Sea would have as much of an impact over flight safety as the United States getting into a shooting war over the Caribbean. Sure flights to the Bahamas would be affected, but the flights from Los Angeles to New York would be well outside of the conflict area. If China were to get into a fight, flights from Chengdu to Beijing, or China to North America, China to Europe, would all be well outside any conflict zone.
Last edited by NEDude; 01-04-2016 at 09:31 PM.
01-04-2016, 10:09 PM
#39
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 737 NG CAPT.
Posts: 216
[QUOTE=NEDude;2040085]Yes, because hidden in my comment was the assertion that China was immune to any conflict...
Seriously, where on earth do you get China out of my comment?! There are many places in the world that have potential for armed conflict, including China. But my comment was specifically aimed at the current issues in the Persian Gulf region that are escalating quickly and in no way were implying that China and the far east were immune from potential conflict. QUOTE
I think you are very naive if you truly think this way. Any escalation in the South China Sea where more than 25% of the world trade flows and annual trade of $5 Trillion. Over 50% of all commercial shipping passes through the Pacific Region associated with the South China Sea. A Full scale war will obviously draw in the US as it has ties to the Phillipines, Japan and Taiwan and to a lesser extent with Singapore, Vietnam and Malaysia. If this powder keg blows the only flying being done in and out of the entire Asian-Pacific region will be F-22s, drones, Migs and J20s and J31s.
This doesn't even bring up the China-North Korea ties or the potential China-Taiwan conflict which are also potential dangerous threats. We all take risks and evaluate potential threats in our careers but take a look at your own bed before you give heedless advice.
Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
Seriously, where on earth do you get China out of my comment?! There are many places in the world that have potential for armed conflict, including China. But my comment was specifically aimed at the current issues in the Persian Gulf region that are escalating quickly and in no way were implying that China and the far east were immune from potential conflict. QUOTE
I think you are very naive if you truly think this way. Any escalation in the South China Sea where more than 25% of the world trade flows and annual trade of $5 Trillion. Over 50% of all commercial shipping passes through the Pacific Region associated with the South China Sea. A Full scale war will obviously draw in the US as it has ties to the Phillipines, Japan and Taiwan and to a lesser extent with Singapore, Vietnam and Malaysia. If this powder keg blows the only flying being done in and out of the entire Asian-Pacific region will be F-22s, drones, Migs and J20s and J31s.
This doesn't even bring up the China-North Korea ties or the potential China-Taiwan conflict which are also potential dangerous threats. We all take risks and evaluate potential threats in our careers but take a look at your own bed before you give heedless advice.
Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
01-05-2016, 02:44 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,067
[QUOTE=EXPAT1;2040098]
I am a little baffled by your insistence at trying to make this a conflict here. I mean seriously, what is wrong with you? You act like I was making a personal attack on you by making a comment about the recent escalation of Saudi-Iranian tensions. If you disagree with my assessment or speculation about what is happening, then go ahead and say why you don't think it will be an issue. I could very well be wrong. Instead you have to drag in something totally unrelated and act like I was claiming those who work in China are better off when that was not stated, inferred, or implied in any way, shape or form. Never in my comment did I even mention China. The only way you could have read into that with my comment is if you are paranoid and looking for a fight.
You are totally correct, if east Asia explodes into total conflict and an all out world war, then obviously China will have issues. But if it is a more limited conflict between China and Vietnam then the effect will be much smaller (note that I did say excluding the economic issues - this is simply referring to safety of flight issues in a conflict area). But that still does not change any of my comments about the recent escalation of conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran which is entirely what my original post was about. If you disagree then please state why you think the Gulf area airlines will not be affected. I am happy to listen and can accept that I might be wrong in my opinion. But if you are looking to start an online fight over a completely unrelated and unmentioned issue, then please look elsewhere.
Originally Posted by NEDude
Yes, because hidden in my comment was the assertion that China was immune to any conflict...
Seriously, where on earth do you get China out of my comment?! There are many places in the world that have potential for armed conflict, including China. But my comment was specifically aimed at the current issues in the Persian Gulf region that are escalating quickly and in no way were implying that China and the far east were immune from potential conflict. QUOTE
I think you are very naive if you truly think this way. Any escalation in the South China Sea where more than 25% of the world trade flows and annual trade of $5 Trillion. Over 50% of all commercial shipping passes through the Pacific Region associated with the South China Sea. A Full scale war will obviously draw in the US as it has ties to the Phillipines, Japan and Taiwan and to a lesser extent with Singapore, Vietnam and Malaysia. If this powder keg blows the only flying being done in and out of the entire Asian-Pacific region will be F-22s, drones, Migs and J20s and J31s.
This doesn't even bring up the China-North Korea ties or the potential China-Taiwan conflict which are also potential dangerous threats. We all take risks and evaluate potential threats in our careers but take a look at your own bed before you give heedless advice.
Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
Seriously, where on earth do you get China out of my comment?! There are many places in the world that have potential for armed conflict, including China. But my comment was specifically aimed at the current issues in the Persian Gulf region that are escalating quickly and in no way were implying that China and the far east were immune from potential conflict. QUOTE
I think you are very naive if you truly think this way. Any escalation in the South China Sea where more than 25% of the world trade flows and annual trade of $5 Trillion. Over 50% of all commercial shipping passes through the Pacific Region associated with the South China Sea. A Full scale war will obviously draw in the US as it has ties to the Phillipines, Japan and Taiwan and to a lesser extent with Singapore, Vietnam and Malaysia. If this powder keg blows the only flying being done in and out of the entire Asian-Pacific region will be F-22s, drones, Migs and J20s and J31s.
This doesn't even bring up the China-North Korea ties or the potential China-Taiwan conflict which are also potential dangerous threats. We all take risks and evaluate potential threats in our careers but take a look at your own bed before you give heedless advice.
Armed Clash in the South China Sea - Council on Foreign Relations
You are totally correct, if east Asia explodes into total conflict and an all out world war, then obviously China will have issues. But if it is a more limited conflict between China and Vietnam then the effect will be much smaller (note that I did say excluding the economic issues - this is simply referring to safety of flight issues in a conflict area). But that still does not change any of my comments about the recent escalation of conflict between Saudi Arabia and Iran which is entirely what my original post was about. If you disagree then please state why you think the Gulf area airlines will not be affected. I am happy to listen and can accept that I might be wrong in my opinion. But if you are looking to start an online fight over a completely unrelated and unmentioned issue, then please look elsewhere.
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